Long arms for home defense?

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Hmm...
I'm a big fan of the .22 myself, but I don't think it's wise to use as a self-defense gun, unless you have nothing better. I would guess that it won't quite do the damage you would want. I had an uncle who always used to tell me "Remember, if someone wants to rob your house, he'll come during the day when you're at work. A person who comes at night is ready to do more than just rob you." If that's the case (sorta makes sense to me), then I'd like something with a little more umph.
The shotgun is a pretty universal suggestion, and for a good reason. Look at Box Of Truth or some of the gel tests for shotgun damage. That larger shot is nasty. If a 12 gauge is too much for you, try a 20. I've seen the tests on them, and they are still plenty damaging at close range without so much of the kick.
If kick is REALLY an issue (I know my sister-in-law won't touch a shotgun), I'd go with a pistol-caliber carbine. The M1 carbine is very nice, and I have a .357 Marlin which shares Gold Dots with my S&W revolver. They make a lovely couple. Did I mention that the Marlin, much like my friend's Ruger PC-40 carbine, had miniscule kick?

Now from my experiences... I can tell you that I have shot and will continue to shoot more pistol than I do rifle. I have always liked shooting pistol, ever since I started with .22, and am starting to get into competition shooting. If I had the time, though, I'd go for that Marlin every time. I normally have time to get ready for a pistol shoot. I've got time to be awake and warm and in good light. If I woke up in the middle of the night to someone breaking my window in, I'd only go for the pistol if I had no time to get to the rifle (I live in an efficiency, like a motel room with a kitchen). Even then, I'd still try to get to the rifle with the pistol in my hand.

Bottom line (as I see it): Use what you're comfortable and confident with. Use what fits the conditions (From legal conditions of the area to geography of the house). Just make sure you can use it, and not only in perfect conditions.
 
I"m not sure I'm seeing the connect here, you don't need to have a concealed carry license to have a handgun at home. As far as I'm aware you'd have no problem in any of those states as long as you transported it unloaded and in a locked case.

That said I do like long guns for power and accuracy. A shot gun should be cheap and very PC.
 
LAK>I do not think a .22 rifle is a bad idea at all. Anyone who masters an autoloading .22 can about duplicate what a 12 gauge load of buckshot can do. Perhaps with greater effect; the solid .22 bullets have better sectional density than round pellets, penetrate deeper, and can be concentrated at the intersection of the nose and eyeline or center chest.
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Getting a quick shot off at center of mass with a 10 pellet 000 buck load at 1250fps is more appealing to me then standing still aiming a .22, then rapid-firing hoping to cause enough damage before the intruder kills you. Imo.
 
The BIG problem with a 10/22 is reliability. The ones I've shot are iffy, with a FTF or jam of some kind one out of hundred or worse. You want total reliability above all else.

But there's nothing wrong with using a long gun for home defense. They're far more accurate and powerful than a short gun. And overpenetration concerns are the product of many misunderstandings. A magnum handgun bullet will penetrate sheetrock the same a rifle bullet. Indeed the speed of the projectiles form a carbine or rifle allows you to control the performance of the projectile. Expansion is more reliable and penetration can be controlled by adjusting style of bullet and sectional density.
 
Just to play Devil's advocate here.....

You know, there are actual cases, like this one, where a .22 rifle has been effectively used for home defense.
Click to expand...

There are also cases of people falling out of airplanes at 35,000 feet and living to tell the tale. If it's all the same, I'm going to wait till the 747 lands before I go for a walk :)

While I certainly wouldn't want to be shot with a .22, I'd like to be facing a goblin holding one even less. I work nights during the weekends and having to leave my missus at home with nothing but a little Mossberg .22 wasn't doing my digestion any good.... Now there's an SKS to go with it, which while not ideal certainly has a bit more pep than ten rounds of .22 LR!

But, like most of these fellas, I'm advocating a shotgun. In fact I'm probably trading for one myself if the other fellow likes the .22, and I'll be loading it with OO buck, since checking out Box Of Truth has soured me on the idea of #4 shot.

I've not shot any of the pistol calibre carbines, but I've heard good things about the High Point and it's on my to-get list, along with the Tapco stock that turns it into a Beretta Storm clone :)
 
I've got a Remington 870 12 gauge w/18" barrel and a RRA AR15 that is close by... along with my Kimber. I guess it boils down to whatever I could get to first. But, I'd prefer the 870.

ar870_2.jpg
 
Shotgun with slugs for inside the house. One center mass hit on an unarmored target inside the house and the target will drop and likely not get up ever again. This is indisputable. Shot gives no real advantage at that range. Slugs are cheaper than buck shot and work for longer ranges up to at least 150 yards as well.
 
I am a big proponent on the proper use of a shotgun for close quarters ( out to 50 yards) and Always shot 00 buck. Then I met an old time range officer who had attended more riots and civil insurrection all over the world than I had read about in the paper. He made a very good point to me and I hope I can pass this along to fellow readers.

A 00 buck round has twelve or thirteen .32 caliber shot which is good but...

A number 4 buckshot has seventy two ~.22caliber shot which makes quite a statement downrange.

Next time you go to the store, buy a box and give it a try. You might like it.
 
Shotgun of some type. My choice was a REMINGTON 870 Express in 12 ga. I load it w/ 3 inch magnum shells filled w/ #4 buck shot. I think it has about a dozen pellets about the size of a #2 pencil eraser. KRYPTONITE will not stop that.
 
If the 10/22 is that you got it would do.
There are better choices but when I was a kid I could really put some lead out fast and accurate with my 10/22, even at 100 yards.
Not ideal but catching a half dozen CCI stingers in the torso would make me a whole lot less aggressive.
 
Long arm for home defense

I have been struggling with this myself and have come to the conclusion that I'd much rather have a handgun of suitable caliber that a long gun because:

1. The shorter the barrel, the easier it is to manuver in the home.
2. The longer the barrel, the easier it is for someone on the other end to control it and possibly take it from you, especially at bad breath range.
3. Jack Bauer would step over any long arm to get to a handgun.;)

Flame on, gents!
 
Turning flames to on position.

1. Generally speaking, the longer the barrel, the longer the sights. The longer the sights, the better your chances of hitting the target. Accuracy is foremost.
2. Longarms are easier to point shoot. They are more solidly anchored to the body, making it easier to achieve alignment between body and weapon.
3. Longarms tend to hurt more.
4. Clint Smith would shoot Jack right in the toodles as he tried to step over 'im. :D
 
2. The longer the barrel, the easier it is for someone on the other end to control it and possibly take it from you, especially at bad breath range.

If someone grabs the muzzle, pull the trigger.
 
GAK
Getting a quick shot off at center of mass with a 10 pellet 000 buck load at 1250fps is more appealing to me then standing still aiming a .22, then rapid-firing hoping to cause enough damage before the intruder kills you. Imo.
Click to expand...
So would I. Maybe. I might; squared off with them at five yards - out in the open with no cover for either of us, and a certainty that there were no fellow antagonists lurking at twenty eight, or forty, among some bushes, parked cars - or a trash pile.

Incidently, .22 highspeeds from a rifle tube are probably going to match or surpass the velocity of most buckshot loads. And a good .22 rifle has some versatility. With a good .22 rifle one who is well practised and knows his trajectory should be able to do some very very fuss free and very effective shooting to ranges somewhere between seventy five and one hundred yards. Some further depending on how well they can judge distances and know their bullet trajectory.

So at any distance beyond which a load of buckshot becomes rather iffy - or completely unreliable - which is generally much shorter than many believe - a .22 rifle has some distinct advantages.

--------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
We're using a 9mm AR15 until the 5.56 upper arrives, and we'll probably use the 9mm for a while after that.

The lady is comfortable with the 9mm, she cant handle my 590, and the thompsons are too heavy, too big, too heavy, did I mention heavy? She's never fired a pistol either.

The 9mm will stay out at night while I work since we're expecting a little one soon. Since she's gonna breastfeed its gonna be a while before the lady can get to the range to shoot the 5.56 and kinda get used to the additional noise.

My 10-22s sleep in the safe. If its all ya got, and you can use it well, go ahead. But I second the reccomendation for a Hi-Point.
 
Carbines are fine for HD, though I'd want more than .22lr.

My general recommendation is pistol caliber autoloaders, unless you are already familiar with and like 12 ga, and/or keep your handgun skills fresh, or already have an AR in a jurisdiction that has no beef with them, in which case get a mag of frangibles.
 
wait?? why would you not use a long gun for home defense??

pistols are backup weapons.
Click to expand...

Everyone has different needs, concerns, levels of experience, training and other variables.

My concern has always been entering, exiting, and answering the door of a structure, business or home.
Add, getting into, out of a vehicle, again at a business, home, besides normal vehicle travels.

MY concerns based on MY work, true life experiences, and true life observations.

Answering the door for the Pizza is easier with a handgun.
Recovering from surgery and kicked back in a recliner, with a handgun, while someone answers the door , with a handgun, for the casserole brought over.

Easy part over...

Turn off the home alarm , unlock door, and take one step inside the house to find a .357 Revolver stuck at your face.

-

Alarm Company calls, and you look out your apartment, looks good, and get halfway to car, and BGs are waiting on you.
Fake call Business Alarm is going off, and BGs in Apt complex parking lot for you to leave.

-
Now, I am just a regular J.Q. Public. I am not allowed to carry out my daily affairs with a slung long gun.

In the real life example I have been through, the fact I had long guns in a structure were of no use to me at the exact moment I was going through a serious situation.

Think out of the box.

There is NO one solution to all problems.
Firearms are only one tool in the toolbox - not THE only tool.
 
DawgFvr,
How much training in the Spirit of the Bayonet have you had? How much practice have you had using that shotgun indoors with a fixed bayonet?

Please tell us how you intend to actually employ it and what difficulties you've encountered in training. I'm looking for some actual reasons that you recommend fixed bayonets for home defense. Please fill us in.

Jeff
 
I just quickly browsed the replies here, but I didn't see much mention of the .223 in this role. If you do some quick searches (and possibly hit the ammo FAQ on ar15.com) you'll see that many .223 rounds are destabilized after hitting anything (be it person or sheet rock), and essentially spin themselves into shrapnel a few inches later. This is considered by many a good thing when it hits meat (because it increases the damage to soft tissue) or walls (because it reduces penetration), and a bad thing when trying to shoot through cover.

A lot of folks 'in the know' are of the opinion that a carbine like an AR15 offers less risk of over penetration in a home defense scenario than most/all pistol bullets. It's worth considering.

(Note, I've not performed these tests myself, but lots of folks I respect have all come to this same conclusion).
 
I will second SM's response-(and his experience is VASTLY greater)
A long gun is fine if you are engaged in a shoot out-but most of the time you will need a gun, you WON'T- It will be a false alarm or a ambiguous situation.
Is it really a lost driver asking for directions? Are they missionarys at the door? Who is parked in your drive? Are those two kids making out or thinking about robbing your house?
While all these situations may warrant checking out, they will get you looked at with a great deal of interest by the cops if you walk out with a shotgun or rifle in your hand. Try brandishing a firearm, assault, etc.
Ever try to dial the phone, open a door, hold a flashlight, signal with your hand, carrying a long gun?
So if six gangbangers with ak's come over the hill, grab your M1. But for most situations, the handgun is what you will have.
 
Derek.
Re: .223.
It has been t-o-o many years since I handled a AR, shot one, and did some testing.
I used bone stock Colts. I have to bow to Jeff, and too many others on this board.

What I can share is, yes, .223 fits certain tasks for certain folks.

WE, shot actual structures, built to test various firearms. Handgun, Shotgun, and Rifles in a variety of calibers from .22 rim-fire short, to .44 magnum,in handguns.
.22 lr to 45-70 in rifles .
.410 target loads to 12 ga Brenneke Slugs and 10 gauge Goose, 00 and slugs. [dat is a big sucker!)

1. Built structures test different from just shooting building materials.
Even differs from a built 2x4 frame with a door, and sheet-rock "put up".
Like one sees on a IDPA/ISPC stage.

2. Safety for shooter was learned and accessed as well.
a. Senses: hearing (all sorts of stuff besides being noise), sight (muzzle flash)
b. Ricochets.
Not every shot fired is going to be at a flat facing target.
Not every shot is going to hit structure in a flat , head on manner.

Incomers are bad enough, ricochets, be they bullets, or the glass lamp, are dangerous and deadly too.
Why nobody thinks of this is beyond me. I must really be screwed up, as were Mentors that passed this onto me.

Outgoers.
Most folks think "out going, who cares?"
Richochets.
Let loose in some settings with the intent of "sweeping a room with Shotgun Pellets / full mag of rifle rounds and that glass door in the dining room has just cut all to pieces, your wife, kid, whomever taking cover behind the overturned table and is bleeding to death.

Training.
I know, I was the shooter.
Walls were the stucco type.
Perp was in the kitchen, using a cabinet for concealment.
Glass door down the way to the left.
10 rd mag of .223 and the angle of fire ricocheted and hit that glass.
Red Cross dummy, cut bad, deepest cut, carotid artery .

New glass door.
BG is now holding a gun to my "wife" and ...
12 ga pump with slugs.
Kneeling, strong side, one shot to bust his head, wife safe.


Boss mans house replicated if you will, he and Body Guards wanted to know. We all did.

Now, .223 in AR platform was used by Plains clothed ladies and gents.
Shop area if you will, with false business front. Alterations.
Oh some actual alterations were done, just past that area, was a very secure area with lot of security needs.
.223 was assessed to be ONE of the firearms, to be used in that setting, not the only firearm choice.

Elevator operator had one AR, along with two 1911s using CCI Flying Ashtrays for loads.

Can't paint with a broad brush.
Different strokes for different folks.
 
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