Long range hunting question

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Note that the Federal Premium Hi-energy loading for the '06 claims 3,150 ft/sec with a 165-grain Sierra, from a 26" barrel. A few years back, I had some emailings with an Aussie about this. He stated that he'd chronographed this load, and agreed with the factory claim.

Based purely on such subjective judgement as felt recoil in comparison to other loads, and the ruinacious devastation on a poor innocent coyote, I'm pretty much a believer. :)

Art
 
Yeah, Art, thought that sounded kinda slow for a .300 mag. Of course, with his 06, he has lots of stuff from the factory like Hornady light magnum. But, I can see wanting a mag in the same way I chose the 7 mag over the .280 I was thinkin' about. You can make a .280 out of a 7, but you can't make a 7 out of a .280.
 
You have quite a talent amigo. Longest shot I ever took, and it was damn far for me, was 310 yards.

Usually it is very close range that light bullets tend to have problems out of a 300 Win Mag or larger. I have seen quite a few fragment in deer at ranges less than 100 yards. The 300 was never really desined for light bullets. 165gr would be my bare minimum starting point. I would personally stick to 180 as it should carry enough "umph" to effectivly push through a deer's vitals out at longe range. I would also shy away from bullets like the Balistic Tip as they are known fragmenters. Even at long range, they will fragment if they hit bone. Fine for the range, but not fair to the animal. Accubonds or Interbonds may be your best bet for long range as they are very accurate bullets, but designed to stay together. Best of luck.
 
I'm gonna step out on a limb here... NOBODY SHOOT IT OFF... I'm gonna defend Hammy, (I like Hammy, the squirl on the movie 'Over the Hedge'.)

I've never hunted Coues in NM. They just may be that difficult to get close to. I dunno. I do know that I've been within 50 feet of Columbia Coues here in Washington, alas, we can't hunt them here. (here they weigh a bloody lot more than a buck fifty too!) The wide open area's of the deep southwest probably give a different hunting experience than the foothills and mountains of the great northwest, (great northwet). Are there places here where we can 'harvest' game at long distances? Yes. We just don't for the most part, because there's usually cover to get closer. Every day of this hunting season I was in the field, there was a good breeze. Not prime for long distance shooting. And I did pass up a chance on a once in a lifetime Mule deer that was on a trot at 500yds. It was not time to teach my 13 and 15 year olds to take long shots that morning. It's one thing if just at a piece of paper with someone as a spotter. A little different on an animal. And this dad wasn't about to begin showing off how well he can shoot.

It's also illegal to hunt with bait here for Deer, Bear and Elk. So for you Texans with feeders on timers and even ya'll back east that plant food plots just so you can sit in a nice cozy treestand through the blistering chill of a day and take 3 or 6, or 9 or 12 Deer a season/year, Please be comforted that you can do so, because out west we don't have as many Deer, and we have to hunt them differently according to our regulations. We only get one a year. Hammy hunts his way, you hunt your way, we hunt our way.

I have a friend from Indiana that was seasoned hunter for Whitetail. Got his ten pointer when he was a kid. (we only count one side of the rack out here...) Anyway, he was a good Navy buddy stationed in Washington for 12 or so years. We hunted together for Blacktail for several seasons. He never got one. Said they were the hardest Deer to ever hunt. Hmm? I wonder why I've gotten ten of them, (seven with open sighted lever gun. Some out to 200 yards. A few more with open sighted pistol), and a few Muley's and a couple Whitetail? I dunno. Just lucky I guess.

NOW That's how to stir up a forum OldHammy1. You did nothing wrong.

-Steve
 
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Hunting from a cozy heated stand just might make it harder to understand the necessity of on the last day of season spending 6 hours stalking a deer trying to get close enough for a shot. Spending hours not being able to move to avoid detection, and Crawling in the brush, rocks, and dirt and then only being able to get close enough that with the corsshairs level with his back have the 150 g. bullet at 3000 FPS hit just above the heart. This was the exception not the rule, but by far and away not the only time either, it can and does happen. I know I was that crawling hunter.
I do know that not everyone sits in a heated elevated plywood box watching a feeder, some are no doubt hunters facing difficult hunting situations but,
Hunting Western sage brush or shooting across mountain canyons isn't much like lots of hunting East of the Rockies from what I have read about it, and that having the ability to make a long distance shot when called for is a very good thing.
 
Remember that hunting video on YouTube a short while back where the hunt stands were on stilts up and down a powerline access road? Oh, that's hunting for sure!

I know. NOT everyone hunts that way.

These hunting shows bug the crap out of me with their hunting sheds and pop-up blinds. What ever happened to using natural cover? Or practicing shooting well enough to be able to take that long shot?!!! Like Oldhammy1!

I don't knock the long shot. If you're good enough and that's what's needed in your environment - So Be It.

Now we're getting off topic and this thread will probably be closed. Might be a good thing.

Good hunting in the future Hammy!

-Steve
 
If I was looking for more power/FPS than my '06 I would take a good hard look at the Remington Ultra's in 300 and 7 mag.
 
(Usually it is very close range that light bullets tend to have problems out of a 300 Win Mag or larger. I have seen quite a few fragment in deer at ranges less than 100 yards. The 300 was never really desined for light bullets. 165gr would be my bare minimum starting point. I would personally stick to 180 as it should carry enough "umph" to effectivly push through a deer's vitals out at longe range. I would also shy away from bullets like the Balistic Tip as they are known fragmenters. Even at long range, they will fragment if they hit bone. Fine for the range, but not fair to the animal. Accubonds or Interbonds may be your best bet for long range as they are very accurate bullets, but designed to stay together. Best of luck.)

Fantastic advice! Thanks Michael. I am thinking about starting out with 168 grain nosler accubond's.

Just as a side note for those who have had issues with my shot (and thanks for those that gave me compliments), let me share two experiences:

Last year, the whitetail buck I shot was at 225 yards, one shot one kill just behind the kneck through the spine. So much for not being able to get close.

This year, hunting with my son- Opening morning we spot two nice bucks at about 300 yards. I could have set him up and told him to start lobbing in lead, but it was not an ethical shot, given that he is 10 years old and does not have significant experiece with the .270 he was using. So we attempted to get closer, almost got a shot when we closed the distance to 175 yards, but they gave us the slip around the hill at the last minute. I feel much better about teaching him principles of safety, patience, and ethical hunting instead of just hoping he would connect by dumb luck. No tag filled three days later, but some great time together, and lifelong memories made.

-Hammy
 
Art:

You have a 26" barrel Wby Mk V?? Lucky guy! I had one of those (a Fibermark) back in 1989, but sold it when I went to doctoral school full-time. I used to nail 2-liter pop bottles at 500 yards in the local gravel pit with it. That was an excellent rifle, and for certain one I regret selling!

Doc2005
 
I can't understand for the life of me why some people get all worked up over someone on an inernet forum yanking their chain. Hammy, just hunt the way you want and don't let the know-it-all, been there-done that types drag you down. I can appreciate all types of hunting. Different strokes for different folks. I've hunted bean fields, food plots, corn feeders, and stalked through the Great Smokey mountains. I loved all of them. I hunt with a compound bow, a 30-30, a 308 and a 243. The bottom line is that we are all after the same game. We enjoy the experiences differently. That is what makes us hunters, the experiences. We have all had a squirrel bust us in the middle of a stalk, or had a wiley old doe blow and wheeze at us until our hair stood up, or had our heart stopped by a covey of flushing quail in the middle of a stalk. There's no need for us to thump our chests or push our ethics on another. Just enjoy the time you spend outdoors doing things your way. The riff raff will fall in line shortly.
 
(I can't understand for the life of me why some people get all worked up over someone on an inernet forum yanking their chain. Hammy, just hunt the way you want and don't let the know-it-all, been there-done that types drag you down. I can appreciate all types of hunting. Different strokes for different folks. I've hunted bean fields, food plots, corn feeders, and stalked through the Great Smokey mountains. I loved all of them. I hunt with a compound bow, a 30-30, a 308 and a 243. The bottom line is that we are all after the same game. We enjoy the experiences differently. That is what makes us hunters, the experiences. We have all had a squirrel bust us in the middle of a stalk, or had a wiley old doe blow and wheeze at us until our hair stood up, or had our heart stopped by a covey of flushing quail in the middle of a stalk. There's no need for us to thump our chests or push our ethics on another. Just enjoy the time you spend outdoors doing things your way. The riff raff will fall in line shortly.)

AMEN!

It just is a little frustrating with all of the know it all's questioning every motive and word typed, except for contributing to the actual question posted. Believe me, I do my thing, and if others don't like it they can KMA. I was genuinely trying to get some advice, and felt like I had to filter through some of the "riff raff"(as you call it) to get there. With guys like you and a few others that posted, my faith in THR is begining to return.
 
"Last year, the whitetail buck I shot was at 225 yards, one shot one kill just behind the kneck through the spine. So much for not being able to get close."

Well I guess if you shoot at 600+ yds 225 yds is close. Once when I was much younger I shot a deer at 365 paces, got him in the neck, one shot kill just like you. Great shot, great story, but the problem was that is not where I was aiming. Not cutting you down for taking such a shot just saying I would never take such a shot. Good hunting and Merry Christmas
 
Hammy1,
I kinda feel like I owe you an apology. I vented on your thread about something that has me irritated from another. I shouldn't have. Apology's are offered.
 
Hunting Western sage brush or shooting across mountain canyons isn't much like lots of hunting East of the Rockies from what I have read about it, and that having the ability to make a long distance shot when called for is a very good thing.

There are those that hunt with primitive weapons, ya know, BP or sticks and strings. There's more'n one way to skin a cat. :D Some chose the high road, some the low, so long as they get to the same spot in the end I reckon it's all good. Me, I ain't worth a toot with a stick and a string, but some guys enjoy it. I'm like that buzzard sittin' on the tree top sayin' "Patience hell, I'm gonna KILL somethin'!". :D But, I do like the season set up for BP in New Mexico and that's what I think I'll do next time I go out there. Might not be successful, but at least I got a month to try. The way they run the rifle seasons out there, you wanna hunt opening season, you get ONE WEEKEND, two days. :rolleyes: And, it's in November when the weather gets a little harsh. That's fine if you're in a motorhome, but us po boys with tents, well.....:D
 
It ain't all long distance shootin MC, that's for durn sure. I've shot deer at 50 feet or less with centerfire in the sagebrush. Shot my elk last fall with a muzzle loader at 60 to 80 yards at the most, in a old growth thick conifer forest. Buddy that was with me last year did again this year. Unfortunately my plans were changed for me, and I couldn't go this fall.

We've ruined the man's thread for sure I fear.
If I was planning on shooting long distance much I would probably use a heaver bullet than the 150's I always use now. If your gonna hit critters way out there heaver bullets will have more down range retained energy.
 
Did you see the history channel today, talking about snipers? One of the episodes had the Brit snipers and they were using a .338 round that was NOT belted. I've since been told it was the .330 Laupa. It sounded like a dandy long range thumper, but probably more than a coues deer would take. LOL Awesome looking round and rifle they were firing it from, though.
 
Doc, I started out with the '06 back when the mountains hadn't grown so danged high; sporterized an old 1917 Enfield when I was a kid. I learned through the years that longer barrels work better. So, around 1970 I went looking to build a custom rifle. My idea was for a Mark 10 action; Shilen barrel. Shilen got all back-ordered. I was reading through a Weatherby catalog and spotted an option for the Mark V, a "#2 profile, 26" barrel in .30-'06..." etc., etc.

Got one. German made. $315 out the door. I replaced the trigger with a Canjar. Messed around with the forearm bedding. I could see pretty good, back then, and with 150-grain handloads I could slow-fire ten-shot groups of around 7/8" to 1-1/8" off my 100-yard benchrest. 3x9x40 Leupold Vari-X II. I guess I've run some 4,000 rounds through Ol' Pet. :) I guess it's fair to say we're "all married up". :D We've had some involuntarily quick trips down some mountainsides, for sure...

Art
 
German made?! <<sniff, sniff!!>> Mine was from Japan, but all the same beautiful...but mine was not German. :(

I also had one of the first USA made Mark Vs in .270 Winchester, but the kicker, it was the 9-lug, not the 6-lug version. :D Unfortunately, the .270 Win had the 24" barrel. Like a knuckle-head, I sold it back at the time I had my neck fused...thought I'd never hunt again.

Now, I can't find any for sale. :( But, I keep looking.

Doc2005
 
I shoot a 300 Win Mag and have been playing around with the different factory bullet weights in the past few years. I used to use a 180 grain Winchester Ballistic Tip with great success on whitetail. This year I tried the 150 grain Winchester XP3. I worried about the smaller bullet fragmenting on close range shots, but after reading about the construction of this bullet I wasn't as worried. I shot my deer this fall at maybe 30 yards and the bullet held together and exited perfectly.
If you are really looking for the longer ranges, I would stick with the 180 grain, maybe look at some of the 165's. I think the 150's are too short to be viable at the longer ranges, but I am sure it could be done.
 
oldhammy1,

You sound a lot like myself, interested in putting the best you can into what your doing. Here in my part of Texas, I have grown up hunting in many different surroundings. When I was just starting out at 6yrs old we hunted over corn feeders in the hill country where more than 20 deer would pile in when they went off. For me it was a learning experience in how to shoot one, not so much of how to bait one in. The ranch we hunted had to take so many of the does off each year to sustain a population that wouldn't over run the natural vegitation.

As I grew I hunted hardwood forest, swamp bottoms and river bottoms as well. No feeders but an occaisional food plot. The plots were there to add to the deers overal minerals and as additional food for them and were not generally hunted over.

Bringing my grandson into hunting I set up a feeder to enable him to have not only a more stable shot on the animal but also to allow him to see more game while out. We have only taken feral hogs under the feeder so far and he is two for two on that. Being he just turned 6 this past Thanksgiving I figure he isn't doing to bad. He also scored a yote out just over 150yds as well. He uses a Ruger Compact in .308 with reduced load put together by me. A couple of weeks back I upped the dosage on the loads and brought him up from a 125gr bullet @ 2200fps to a 130gr bullets @ 2570fps. This will help him to reach out a little more efficiently on a couple of deer we have had to pass on due to the load he was shooting.

In your case, if I were looking to do what your looking into I would take a good look at the Barnes TSX, they are a bit pricey but the preformance I have gotten and heard reported from other reliable sources has been wonderful. THe Accubond or Interbond are also great as well. The thing with the TSX is that you can drive them to a tad higher velocity per weight than normally constructed bullets, and the recoil isn't as amplified. This was one of the considerations I had to deal with on the little Ruger for the grandson, since the rifle only weighs 6.5 pounds field ready, and the kid is only about 65 pounds.

I know you mentioned wanting a 300 Win mag, but also consider using the newer 300 WSSM or the 300 RUM as well. With either you do not have to deal with the belted case. Both will drive anything from 165 - 200grs easily to velocities you will need for extended range shooting. One thing on the RUM is that Remington also loads three different power level factory loads for it as well. One is close to '06 velocities, the second is a middle ground around the .300 Win and the last is their top end loads which are pretty awesome. As for recoil yes the RUM has it and if your not against a brake, they make this a very tame critter. I would suggest looking up Definsive Edge and getting in touch with Shawn Carlock. He has built a brake which is very well adapted to these type rifles and his work is outstanding. I have personally shot a RUM with up to 240gr bullets ripping out at max velocities and the recoil is light enough to see your impacts at 500yds through a 15x Nightforce.

I also understand your way of thinking on the close verses long shots. Most of my hunting is in river bottoms but I also hunt our family farm. In the bottoms we might get 100yds if yoiu thread the needle, on our farm your looking across flat hay fields whick if the deer is at 450yds well thats as close as your gonna get ot him unless he walks your way, which don't happen very often. I am an accomplished shot out to 500yds easily with several of my rifles in varoius conditions. my longest shot on a whit4etail was just over 400 yds using my 25-06 and a 115gr Partition. I know this load and rifle inside and out and it was not a problem to hit exactly where I was aiming under the conditions I shot in. The deer was standing perfectly still relaxed and eating, the sun was illuminating him and everything around him, the wind was non existant, and after the break of the trigger I recovered the sight picture just as the bullet impacted right in front of his left shoulder dumping him on the spot. Could I have gotten closer, possibly had there not been two dozen or more deer in the field. However in some situations there isn't that choice, and if you shoot your rifles at ranges way beyond what you ever ecpect to shoot, then every once in a while, you don't have to watch that buck of a lifetime walk out of sight due to you not being sure of yourself.

I wish you all the luck in your endeaver and hope that which ever you choose it is a shooter for you.
 
One thing about worrying about range limitations: It's the shooter, not the rifle, most generally. If somebody takes the time to really get to know his equipment, and actually practices out in Ma Bell territory, long shots aren't really that big a deal.

The advent of laser range finders creates a whole new world. I guess my own sense of a range limit has to do with wind conditions much more than just distance as such.

As example, at my 500-yard range, I've figured "stiff breeze" but not thought of it as very much wind--but I had to hold right at two feet upwind to centerpunch the target. Guesstimating the four feet of drop wasn't any big deal.

But it seems to me that a scope with very high-quality adjustments becomes a necessity. With tables, cranking the crosshairs "just right" beats guesstimating four or six feet of holdover. :)
 
Now that range finders are reliable I use a Leica for shooting the 45-70 or 56-50. If you have elevation all dialed in , wind is what will get you. A 10mph cross wind can make the difference between a miss and a hit at 100 yards with those calibers. Further out with modern cartridges will do the same, so that has to be considered before the shot is taken. Look at the grass or some other indicator next to the animal in your scope or spotting scope is better. I pack a heavy spotting scope, 25-75x90mm to see details.
 
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