Long recoil semi automatics What happened ?

[Mn Fats]

Not really seeing how a recoil operated shotgun is less efficient or obsolete. I only shoot 2 3/4" anyway so gas has no benefit for me. Recoil operated has the benefit of malfunctioning less due to fouling. Keep a gas operated clean and the above statement is moot. If a specific gas gun fits you best, its better than the recoil operated. If a specific recoil operated gun fits you best, its better than the gas gun. Fit is what counts with a shotgun. Not its operation.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Perhaps obsolete was a bit harsh. Cut me some slack. I'm from Iowa, we don't have all the words here.
The A5 was and is a great shotgun. Like many other classic firearms, cost of production, demand and competition from new designs sealed it's fate. In that sense only, it is obsolete.

 

[eastbank]

Remington and Mossberg saw the writing on the wall and went to a good shotgun made by using time-money saveing means, leaving most hand fitted and machined shotguns behind. that does not mean the older solid steel made shotguns were bad or no good, just that they required a higher price point to make. eastbank.

 

[cota]

Not all in fact Most long recoil semi autos are not solid steel, Franchi 48ALs are the ussual aloy material used on lots of semi autos and pumps, the Franchi 48A magnum is steel but again has no screws just pins like others, wood or synthetic is the same, barrel same hust no gas chamber or port and guis rails and friction bush tapper barrel band its not a huge difference and i dont see this extra price point in this avtion design mentioned here.

 

[Virginian]

One point bugs me. The original Browning long recoil semi automatics were named the Auto 5. The new semi autos are inertia actioned and are called A5. They have very little in common and the only similarity is the square backed receiver profile designed to capitalize on the popularity of the originals. Tossing the nomenclature around loosely contributes to errors.

 

[Virginian]

Do not overlook the recoil attenuating capabilities of a gas semi auto as contributing to the long recoil actions downfall. Yes, the long recoil can be tuned to reduce recoil for one particular load, but a gas auto will reduce it for all loads. An inertia gun also does nothing to reduce recoil, but they have come up with two piece stocks and better recoil pads pads that help immensely. And, regardless of the real contribution, you never heard about the effects of gun fit until inertia guns arrived.

 

[1KPerDay]

One point bugs me. The original Browning long recoil semi automatics were named the Auto 5. The new semi autos are inertia actioned and are called A5. They have very little in common and the only similarity is the square backed receiver profile designed to capitalize on the popularity of the originals. Tossing the nomenclature around loosely contributes to errors.

Yeah the new A5 is just an ugly benelli IMO. They should have left well enough alone.

 

[cota]

Do not overlook the recoil attenuating capabilities of a gas semi auto as contributing to the long recoil actions downfall. Yes, the long recoil can be tuned to reduce recoil for one particular load, but a gas auto will reduce it for all loads. An inertia gun also does nothing to reduce recoil, but they have come up with two piece stocks and better recoil pads pads that help immensely. And, regardless of the real contribution, you never heard about the effects of gun fit until inertia guns arrived.

Gas autos do help with FELT recoil. But as you point out Long recoil guns do spread out the recoil over a longer period of time, and if you get the bush settings and lube just right recoil does not feel anything like as heavy as say a pump action or short recoil semi.
I use a $*a Mag along with two others identical in our family, these are simple to field strip with 3 inch steel and bismuth are low on recoil and the barrel recoiling as that double shuffle sensation about it i do in essence enjoy, it is reassuringly different in a world of modernity i suppose a trendy word for this is RETRO.
Recoil opperated semi autos are still to this day a mechanisum type gun manufacturers could use, and if built along the lines of a Franchi 48A or AL or Remington model 48 i dont think would be expensive to produce.
Baikal named Tula semi autos i think called a 121 or similar are another simple Long recoil action They have the Remington 48 a little in the styling.

 

[PabloJ]

Yeah the new A5 is just an ugly benelli IMO. They should have left well enough alone.

Nope, the New Auto-5 16ga with 26" or 28" barrel is light weight upland bird getting magic wand.

 

[1KPerDay]

Nope, the New Auto-5 16ga with 26" or 28" barrel is light weight upland bird getting magic wand.

sounds great thanks

 

[entropy]

Not really seeing how a recoil operated shotgun is less efficient or obsolete. I only shoot 2 3/4" anyway so gas has no benefit for me. Recoil operated has the benefit of malfunctioning less due to fouling. Keep a gas operated clean and the above statement is moot. If a specific gas gun fits you best, its better than the recoil operated. If a specific recoil operated gun fits you best, its better than the gas gun. Fit is what counts with a shotgun. Not its operation.

It's the manufacturing techniques that are (sadly) obsolete. Making or even assembling, an A5 is a lot more labor intensive than an 1100, as has been mentioned, and the market for that at the price point necessary for profit is just not there. The thread is about why long recoil shoguns aren't being made anymore. I think most if not all of us agree the ones already made are efficient and effective, paticularly the A5. (Not so much the Noble 80, though!)

 

[PabloJ]

sounds great thanks

I have only shouldered couple at LGS. I don't know from personal experience, but what I found amazing is that folks at 16ga.com or ShotgunWorld.com Browning Shotgun section claimed it will function with standard 16ga 1oz at avg. muzzle velocity of 1165fps which would make recoil manageable. Anyhow if those don't work perfectly one can also try certain 16ga Aguila shells or Rio loads that start at about 1300fps.

 

[Pete D.]

interesting designs employing a "short-recoil" system included the Browning Double-Auto and the Winchester Models 50 and 59.

Ah! The model 59 Winchester........now there’s a nice gun. It is still my upland gun. I shot one of my first 25s in 16 yard Trap with that gun.
Pete

 

[1KPerDay]

I have only shouldered couple at LGS. I don't know from personal experience

sounds about right

 

[entropy]

Do not overlook the recoil attenuating capabilities of a gas semi auto as contributing to the long recoil actions downfall. Yes, the long recoil can be tuned to reduce recoil for one particular load, but a gas auto will reduce it for all loads. An inertia gun also does nothing to reduce recoil, but they have come up with two piece stocks and better recoil pads pads that help immensely. And, regardless of the real contribution, you never heard about the effects of gun fit until inertia guns arrived.

Untrue. Trap shooters, upland bird shooters and big game hunters have been obsessed with gun fit since long before inertia guns came along.

 

[Virginian]

I will agree trap shooters have been obsessed since time immemorial. You will see some of the strangest sights anywhere on a trap line.

 

[wgp]

Don't mean to keep beating the horse, but my A5 has continued to function perfectly while my friends' Beretta gas guns and 1100s have failed in the field. I do love my Benelli too but that A5 happens to fit me very well, I shoot it better than most of my other shotguns and I don't care that it's funny looking. I did get rid of a 12ga A5 due to its weight, but my 20 is an absolute keeper.

 

[eastbank]

we would have to know what care was taken with the beretta and Remington to make a statement like that. some people do not take care of their firearms and only clean them when they fail to work-fire. I use a Remington 1100 12ga for trap and some skeet and it will eat hundreds of cheap Walmart low brass trap loads between cleanings with no problems at all. eastbank.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

I'll add my own experience; I've been breaking clays with an A5 of mid-seventies vintage and it has proven to be absolutely reliable provided I set it up for the load I'm using. I have only one complaint: it kicks hard! Even with light target loads, I start to flinch badly during the second round of 25... it really really begins to hurt. I suppose that's due to all that mass of metal in recoil. Fixed that with a Kick-eez, and now it's an all-day pleasure. (Still pretty heavy, though.)

 

[10X]

Used an Auto 5 for years. Always reliable fit well and I could hit with it, but hated changing the ring for high vs. low power shells. I also felt like I got two recoils. One from firing and one from the barrel going back and forth. Eventually, sold it and stayed with pumps.

 

[Virginian]

The double shuffle put me off long recoil semi autos forever. The lone exception was a 28 gauge Franchi. That thing was so light I would have tolerated a triple shuffle of 12 gauge magnitude for toting it up and down hill chasing grouse.

 

[zaitcev]

i as a layman do not see where the extra cost of long recoil lays

This is an interesting question. Fundamentally, long recoil has only a couple of complications: the trip linkage that releases the bolt when the barrel reaches the battery, and the need to have 2 recoil springs instead of 1 recoil spring. In a shotgun, the bolt spring can be placed into the buttstock, since folding stocks basically never happen on hunting shotguns. The trip linkage takes a bit of design work and costs you only several parts. Fortunately, it usually does not conflict with elevator or fire control. Gas guns have operating bars too. The only really tricky part is how to put the whole apparatus together so it can be assembled and disassembled. Or so it seems to me. The Browning Auto 5 solved the issue quite well, in my opinion.