looking for a 380 pistol
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tubeshooter
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If you can find a Makarov with a .380 barrel that would meet all your criteria I believe. The 8+1 capacity for a single stack is a nice plus.
It's not as sexy as some of the other offerings, and it will be heavy. I like mine though - soft shooting and pretty accurate.
It's not as sexy as some of the other offerings, and it will be heavy. I like mine though - soft shooting and pretty accurate.
astocks2622
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I have an older Bersa Thunder DLX, & it has been very reliable, & accurate to boot. I definitely prefer my M&P Shield, or my wife's Sig P238, as I find either less snappy than the Bersa. The Bersa was my first dedicated concealed carry piece, & it still finds its way onto my belt occasionally. in the hand, I found it more comfortable than the PPK it loosely copies.
For me, the 2 biggest drawbacks to the Bersa are the safety where up is "fire" & down is "safe", & the stock sights that cannot be changed for night sights.
For me, the 2 biggest drawbacks to the Bersa are the safety where up is "fire" & down is "safe", & the stock sights that cannot be changed for night sights.
justin22885
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i think a makarov would fit my bulgarian AK-74 very nicely.. but 9x18 is a bit more energetic of a cartridge.. though it, like everything else the russians make was just a copy of the german 9x18 ultra
Tallball
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I have three pistols that would suit you and my FiL has one. All of them are reliable and reasonably accurate.
I really like my Beretta 84 - high capacity, alloy frame, points well.
If single-action is okay, the old Colt Government 380 is nice. It does fire from a locked breech. The recoil is negligible. I like the 1911 feel that it has.
My FiL has a CZ83. The high capacity is nice. It fits our large hands well and is a joy to shoot.
My favorite is my Russian Makarov in 380. It is blowback, but the recoil isn't much. It is absurdly accurate. I have owned it since the late 1980's and it has yet to malfunction.
It would be hard to go wrong with any of these. The CZ83 and Beretta 84 both came from CDI Sales on Gunbroker. They were in great shape and cost less than $300 apiece - closer to $250, IIRC.
Here are the Beretta, Makarov, and Colt. The one on the bottom is my P3AT.
I really like my Beretta 84 - high capacity, alloy frame, points well.
If single-action is okay, the old Colt Government 380 is nice. It does fire from a locked breech. The recoil is negligible. I like the 1911 feel that it has.
My FiL has a CZ83. The high capacity is nice. It fits our large hands well and is a joy to shoot.
My favorite is my Russian Makarov in 380. It is blowback, but the recoil isn't much. It is absurdly accurate. I have owned it since the late 1980's and it has yet to malfunction.
It would be hard to go wrong with any of these. The CZ83 and Beretta 84 both came from CDI Sales on Gunbroker. They were in great shape and cost less than $300 apiece - closer to $250, IIRC.
Here are the Beretta, Makarov, and Colt. The one on the bottom is my P3AT.
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I have tried out a few pistols chambered in 380.
Really didnt care for the PPK because I have pretty big hands and got my hand sliced from the recoiling slide-my fault, not the pistol.
The Bersa wasnt bad.
Beretta 84 with the 13 round magazine was easier to shoot than the above, likely because of the double stack magazine making it more of a hand filling grip. It liked max charges of W231 behind a 100 grain XTP.
The most fun of them all was an old Government Model 380. With the locked breech, there wasnt as much muzzle rise and was a very soft shooter. Best trigger of the bunch.
Really didnt care for the PPK because I have pretty big hands and got my hand sliced from the recoiling slide-my fault, not the pistol.
The Bersa wasnt bad.
Beretta 84 with the 13 round magazine was easier to shoot than the above, likely because of the double stack magazine making it more of a hand filling grip. It liked max charges of W231 behind a 100 grain XTP.
The most fun of them all was an old Government Model 380. With the locked breech, there wasnt as much muzzle rise and was a very soft shooter. Best trigger of the bunch.
bannockburn
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If strictly limited to straight blowback .380s I would go with the SIG P232 or P230. Extremely well made and excellent ergonomics put it way ahead of the Walther PPK. If you're on a budget a Bersa Thunder would be a good choice as well. Though a bit large (and expensive), both the Beretta Model 84 and single stack Model 85 are great designs and again very well made.
My own choice, after having owned or used most of the pistols listed above (including a Mauser HSc), is that I prefer the SAO design of the Colt Mustang and the SIG P238. Greater accuracy potential with the SA trigger and better ergonomics make them much easier and more comfortable to shoot.
My own choice, after having owned or used most of the pistols listed above (including a Mauser HSc), is that I prefer the SAO design of the Colt Mustang and the SIG P238. Greater accuracy potential with the SA trigger and better ergonomics make them much easier and more comfortable to shoot.
justin22885
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i think im going to have to go either the PPK for its history or the CZ-83 for everything else
Just my experience:
1. Sig 230 - didn't like the recoil
2. LCP - I could shoot it decently at close targets but hated the trigger and sights (this was first edition). Ditched it.
3. Glock 42 - out of the box, it was a jamming horror and had to go back to the shop. It runs now. I like (horrors) the Glock sight and recoil is no problem. It is a comfortable pocket gun.
1. Sig 230 - didn't like the recoil
2. LCP - I could shoot it decently at close targets but hated the trigger and sights (this was first edition). Ditched it.
3. Glock 42 - out of the box, it was a jamming horror and had to go back to the shop. It runs now. I like (horrors) the Glock sight and recoil is no problem. It is a comfortable pocket gun.
usp9
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My personal favorites are the Beretta and Sig. World class by any measure. One not mentioned yet is the Sphinx. Very compact and solid double stack with a light, smooth DAO trigger. I found the Bersa line very substandard compared to these. For a rare bird, look for a HK4 or HK P7K3.
MedWheeler
Member
I have had a Bersa since 2008, and it was used when I got it. I've been very pleased with it, and was amazed with how much trouble I've had trying to get it to malfunction.
The Mustang was discontinued in 1995. The Sig 238 came 20+ years later. It's success enticed Colt to bring the Mustang back.
Good luck finding a new PPK. Since Walther spun off from S&W, they are moving all the machinery from Maine to Walther's new Arkansas facility. They haven't been made this year and probably won't resume production until 2nd quarter of 2016.
Sig 232 may or may not still be made in Germany, but it's a moot point. The German government isn't allowing any German made Sigs to be exported to the U.S. Unless they start making them in Exeter, NH (doubtful) you'll have to find an existing one, and their prices are going up. Because someone's going to ask, SigUSA sold guns to the Honduras govt., which was on Germany's do not sell list. Germany's reaction was to cut off Sig's exports to the US as punishment.
The Beretta 84 is in production again and in stores here. MSRP is $849, higher than a 92. The new ones are very nice, I've handled them.
Good luck finding a new PPK. Since Walther spun off from S&W, they are moving all the machinery from Maine to Walther's new Arkansas facility. They haven't been made this year and probably won't resume production until 2nd quarter of 2016.
Sig 232 may or may not still be made in Germany, but it's a moot point. The German government isn't allowing any German made Sigs to be exported to the U.S. Unless they start making them in Exeter, NH (doubtful) you'll have to find an existing one, and their prices are going up. Because someone's going to ask, SigUSA sold guns to the Honduras govt., which was on Germany's do not sell list. Germany's reaction was to cut off Sig's exports to the US as punishment.
The Beretta 84 is in production again and in stores here. MSRP is $849, higher than a 92. The new ones are very nice, I've handled them.
Interesting observation and I am not saying it's incorrect. I always called a Sig 230 the "Caddy" of .380's as I loved mine. I don't think you could buy a better all steel .380 than a Sig. 230. I did sell mine however and now I also own the Glock 42 and it is by far the softest recoil .380 I have ever shot. Most of the Beretta .380's I have shot I felt had recoil that exceeded that of the Sig 230. Just to the best of my recollection as I was not shooting them in a side by side ammo to ammo comparison.
Furncliff
Member
I have big hands and prefer the CZ 82 and Makarov size .380's/9mak pistols. My wife has small hands and prefers her Bersa Thunder .380 (single stack). We also have the Sig P232.
The Sig is slender and easy to carry,good sights, very accurate and beautifully made but unpleasant to shoot for more than a few magazine loads even with rubber grips.
The CZ 82 has the best trigger a beefier grip and will carry 12 rounds, mine is 9 mm Makarov but you can find new CZ 83's which are .380.
The Makarov should be on your list. AIM and Classic Arms have new shipments. The one I got from Classic is in excellent condition ($329). Sights are small. Descent trigger, legendary reliability.
Bersa Thunder .380... might be the best all around. Inexpensive, good sights, decent trigger pleasant to shoot, accurate, lighter than the Mak or CZ. This pistol surprised me, its better than I might have suspected.
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The Sig is slender and easy to carry,good sights, very accurate and beautifully made but unpleasant to shoot for more than a few magazine loads even with rubber grips.
The CZ 82 has the best trigger a beefier grip and will carry 12 rounds, mine is 9 mm Makarov but you can find new CZ 83's which are .380.
The Makarov should be on your list. AIM and Classic Arms have new shipments. The one I got from Classic is in excellent condition ($329). Sights are small. Descent trigger, legendary reliability.
Bersa Thunder .380... might be the best all around. Inexpensive, good sights, decent trigger pleasant to shoot, accurate, lighter than the Mak or CZ. This pistol surprised me, its better than I might have suspected.
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justin22885
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yeah, i think im going to go with the CZ-82.. i think its the best candidate for a 9x18 ultra conversion as well which will be cheaper to reload for with .355 bullets and 9mm brass with energy thatll place it closer to the 9x18 makarov if not a tad higher.. since the cz-82 was designed for 9x18 makarov its already set up to handle higher energy levels than the .380
Milkmaster
Member
Bersa Thunder CC gets my vote. Make sure you get the concelead carry version that is a lot more rounded off with no places to catch your clothes while carying. I own two of them. Both have been very reliable. My oldest has at least 500 rounds through it so far. Nothing fancy, but the perp' doesn't know that.
george burns
Member
I don't use a 380, but did for 20 years in the 70's. I had a PPK's, and would get the 232 Sig if that was going t be my carry gun. I is just a more refined time tested weapon.
il.bill
Member
The CZ82 only came chambered for the 9x18mm Makarov cartridge.
CZ83 pistols came chambered in your choice of several different cartridges, one of which is the .380 ACP, aka: 9x17mm Browning (Kurtz / Court / Short).
A .380 ACP CZ83 is a well made and accurate pistol (one of my personal shooting favorites) - like any blowback .380 ACP, the recoil seems a tad bit stouter than expected to me.
CZ83 pistols came chambered in your choice of several different cartridges, one of which is the .380 ACP, aka: 9x17mm Browning (Kurtz / Court / Short).
A .380 ACP CZ83 is a well made and accurate pistol (one of my personal shooting favorites) - like any blowback .380 ACP, the recoil seems a tad bit stouter than expected to me.
justin22885
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i think ill go with the CZ-83 and rechamber it for 9x18 ultra.. this way i can get the added power of the 9x18 makarov, however using cheaper, more commonly available bullets and 9mm brass.. im certain the CZ-83 which can handle 9x18 mak can handle 9x18 ultra too.. id only need to ream out a .380 barrel
how do these blowbacks get threaded for a suppressor? will i need an extended, threaded barrel or is there some other mechanism for these?
how do these blowbacks get threaded for a suppressor? will i need an extended, threaded barrel or is there some other mechanism for these?
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1995 plus 20+ equals 2015.
The Sig P238 was available to consumers in 2009 or so.
In my opinion and with $5.00 you can get a designer coffee.
The Beretta M84 is a nice pistol but because of the double stack magazine, it is quite large. The single stack version is a bit more concealable.
Over time, my M84 has peened over the front of the frame where the slide hits it on recoil. It becomes very difficult to disassemble but a little dressing with a file helps. I would not shoot hot loads in it as a result.
My first generation Mustang and P238 are nice shooters but I do not like carrying cocked and locked. I do not have any experience with the currently manufactured Mustangs.
The Kel-Tec P3-AT is reliable but the small size and double action action makes it a handful.
I presently carry a PPK. It is a compromise. Mine also has longevity issues shooting hot 380 ammunition so I stick with round nose, which perform adequately in my opinion. I dislike the double action first shot but at least the gun is loaded and ready to fire.
So, I'm still searching for my 380 ACP Holy Grail.
The locked breech Mustang and P238 have softer recoil than the blow back PPK.
The best 380 blowback is....
I have owned or shot many of the guns mentioned.
I think that the SIG 232 is the best all around .380ACP Double/Single action pistol.
It has a superb trigger and sights (mine has night sights), terrific ergonomics with a perfectly shaped grip for my hand (this is the base aluminum framed model) and a very safe manual of operation. The hard plastic grip has a palm swell that fills my hand.
The SIG hammer dropping system with a side mounted lever is the best method to drop a cocked hammer to me. Yes, you can drop a hammer with the slide mounted safety on the BERETTA, WALTHER PP series or BERSA clone of the WALTHER pistols, but then your gun is on safe and you have to remember to flip back to the SAFETY OFF position. With the SIG, press the lever down and you are ready to go. The safety is off.
I rate the BERETTA 84 and 85 a very close second and if size is not an issue, the BERETTA pistols may be the better choice, especially the BERETTA 84.
Again, excellent trigger, sights and grips and the open topped slide may make the BERETTA the more reliable design. My BERETTA 84 is the only .380ACP pistol that I know of that will feed the .380 Hydra Shok ammo with complete reliability.
I have also shot the COLT .380 GOVERNMENT model and it is quite a nice shooter, but is handicapped by being a single action only gun. It is accurate and the sights are not bad, but I sold mine.
Since the SIG 238 is almost a copy of the COLT, I would say the same negatives apply to the SIG.
The same negatives apply to the great pair of pistols in .380ACP designed by John BROWNING, the COLT 1908 and BROWNING/FN 1910/1922. Both of these guns are great shooter and the COLT is completely overbuilt for this round. The BROWNING 1910/1955 pistols are much smaller and designed for concealment.
Both of these guns shoot well and are accurate, but are single action style pistols in which you cannot drop the hammer on a live round and much be carried with the safety on or the chamber empty.
The CZ 83 in .380ACP is a great pistol, with one glaring flaw to me, the safety. The CZ 83 enjoys many of the good features of the BERETTA 84 like a very smooth trigger, good accuracy and sights with low recoil.
While the BERETTA and SIG use aluminum to keep weight down, the CZ is all steel and very strong. The negative is it is heavy for this group.
The safety on the CZ is a frame mounted 1911 style safety, so once you have racked a round into the chamber, you are stuck with a cocked hammer and no way to lower it, except by pulling the trigger and lowering it with your thumb. This a an accident waiting to happen as far as I am concerned.
If someone disagrees, I do not care, I have seen pistols fired inadvertently when someone is trying to lower a cocked hammer.
For me, a decocker is the only way to go with Double/Single action pistol.
The WALTHER PPK are excellent pistols that suffer from an older design. My PPK is a .32ACP and has proven absolutely reliable, but it is a pre-war model made by WALTHER.
The INTERARMS models had a mixed reputation for reliability and in the samples that I examined, the action was very gritty.
The S&W made model that I examined had a longer tang to prevent slide burn on the shooters hand and a much smoother trigger.
The narrower grip on the PPK will cause the shooter to perceive more recoil than on the hand filling grips of the SIG, BERETTA and CZ designs. I found that my .32ACP PPK kicked about the same as my .380ACP SIG 232. That was the perception caused by the small grip area of the PPK.
My WALTHER PP in .32ACP was about the size of the SIG 232, but heavier with an all steel frame. However, it recoiled worse that the PPK or SIG because the PP has a slab sided grip with a squared off grip form. The PPK has a different grip shape than the PP or PPK/S, it is rounded off at the web area.
Since the PPK was easier to shoot and was smaller, I sold the PP.
I now carry a GLOCK 42 as my off duty gun. It is a terrific .380ACP, very compact, accurate with good sights, trigger and mild recoil. However it is a locked breech weapon.
Also, I have shot the 9m.m. x 18 ULTRA round and it works fine in a steel framed SIG 230, but I would not re-chamber an aluminum framed 232 to the 9x18 round. If SIG offers the choice, great, but you might end up with a weak gun for the chambering, if you rechamber it.
You can get the same or nearly the same performance out of some of the boutique ammo companies using their high velocity ammo. Companies like COR BON and BUFFALO BORE offer +P style ammo for the .380ACP. The price for this is increased recoil and muzzle blast.
Hope this helps,
Jim
I have owned or shot many of the guns mentioned.
I think that the SIG 232 is the best all around .380ACP Double/Single action pistol.
It has a superb trigger and sights (mine has night sights), terrific ergonomics with a perfectly shaped grip for my hand (this is the base aluminum framed model) and a very safe manual of operation. The hard plastic grip has a palm swell that fills my hand.
The SIG hammer dropping system with a side mounted lever is the best method to drop a cocked hammer to me. Yes, you can drop a hammer with the slide mounted safety on the BERETTA, WALTHER PP series or BERSA clone of the WALTHER pistols, but then your gun is on safe and you have to remember to flip back to the SAFETY OFF position. With the SIG, press the lever down and you are ready to go. The safety is off.
I rate the BERETTA 84 and 85 a very close second and if size is not an issue, the BERETTA pistols may be the better choice, especially the BERETTA 84.
Again, excellent trigger, sights and grips and the open topped slide may make the BERETTA the more reliable design. My BERETTA 84 is the only .380ACP pistol that I know of that will feed the .380 Hydra Shok ammo with complete reliability.
I have also shot the COLT .380 GOVERNMENT model and it is quite a nice shooter, but is handicapped by being a single action only gun. It is accurate and the sights are not bad, but I sold mine.
Since the SIG 238 is almost a copy of the COLT, I would say the same negatives apply to the SIG.
The same negatives apply to the great pair of pistols in .380ACP designed by John BROWNING, the COLT 1908 and BROWNING/FN 1910/1922. Both of these guns are great shooter and the COLT is completely overbuilt for this round. The BROWNING 1910/1955 pistols are much smaller and designed for concealment.
Both of these guns shoot well and are accurate, but are single action style pistols in which you cannot drop the hammer on a live round and much be carried with the safety on or the chamber empty.
The CZ 83 in .380ACP is a great pistol, with one glaring flaw to me, the safety. The CZ 83 enjoys many of the good features of the BERETTA 84 like a very smooth trigger, good accuracy and sights with low recoil.
While the BERETTA and SIG use aluminum to keep weight down, the CZ is all steel and very strong. The negative is it is heavy for this group.
The safety on the CZ is a frame mounted 1911 style safety, so once you have racked a round into the chamber, you are stuck with a cocked hammer and no way to lower it, except by pulling the trigger and lowering it with your thumb. This a an accident waiting to happen as far as I am concerned.
If someone disagrees, I do not care, I have seen pistols fired inadvertently when someone is trying to lower a cocked hammer.
For me, a decocker is the only way to go with Double/Single action pistol.
The WALTHER PPK are excellent pistols that suffer from an older design. My PPK is a .32ACP and has proven absolutely reliable, but it is a pre-war model made by WALTHER.
The INTERARMS models had a mixed reputation for reliability and in the samples that I examined, the action was very gritty.
The S&W made model that I examined had a longer tang to prevent slide burn on the shooters hand and a much smoother trigger.
The narrower grip on the PPK will cause the shooter to perceive more recoil than on the hand filling grips of the SIG, BERETTA and CZ designs. I found that my .32ACP PPK kicked about the same as my .380ACP SIG 232. That was the perception caused by the small grip area of the PPK.
My WALTHER PP in .32ACP was about the size of the SIG 232, but heavier with an all steel frame. However, it recoiled worse that the PPK or SIG because the PP has a slab sided grip with a squared off grip form. The PPK has a different grip shape than the PP or PPK/S, it is rounded off at the web area.
Since the PPK was easier to shoot and was smaller, I sold the PP.
I now carry a GLOCK 42 as my off duty gun. It is a terrific .380ACP, very compact, accurate with good sights, trigger and mild recoil. However it is a locked breech weapon.
Also, I have shot the 9m.m. x 18 ULTRA round and it works fine in a steel framed SIG 230, but I would not re-chamber an aluminum framed 232 to the 9x18 round. If SIG offers the choice, great, but you might end up with a weak gun for the chambering, if you rechamber it.
You can get the same or nearly the same performance out of some of the boutique ammo companies using their high velocity ammo. Companies like COR BON and BUFFALO BORE offer +P style ammo for the .380ACP. The price for this is increased recoil and muzzle blast.
Hope this helps,
Jim
usp9
Member
9mm Ultra is pretty hard to come by. I'd rethink that one were I you. If you are dead set on Ultra, IMHO the better option is to buy a Walther or Sig already chambered for it.
bannockburn
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Bill B.
That's funny as a friend of mine had one and we considered it the "Rolex" of .380s!
Beautifully designed and constructed, it had great handling and balance dynamics and was very comfortable to shoot.
That's funny as a friend of mine had one and we considered it the "Rolex" of .380s!
Beautifully designed and constructed, it had great handling and balance dynamics and was very comfortable to shoot.
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