LOOKING FOR AN AR15 PLATFORM

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It won’t be clone correct, but in spirit will allow for extended reach in a (civilian size) compact package. I’m probably going with a 16” SS barrel with a 2-7x32 scope for extended reach.

For the OP, my chrome lined FN barrel in a PSA purchased upper has been more accurate than I expected. It wears iron sights only so it’s accuracy vs mine is not the limiting factor. I did mount a scope for lod testing but just resigned it back in today for the iron sights.
 
Four pages, and we still don't know if OP wants
  • An SBR shorty
  • An M4 carbine clone
  • A 16" Carbine"
  • An 18" mid-length
  • A 20" 'classic' rifle
  • or a 22-24" long range/varmint rifle.
Let alone in what sort of caliber or capacity. We don't even know if OP wants a "truck" gun (which is a complicated question of its own) or not.

But, we are willing to bash each other for liking, or not liking X versus Y versus Z (and "go get a Glock!!11!!).

We're better than that, people.
 
I have to agree with you on your last reply @CapnMac, this IS suppose to be the High Road. We should be better that ARCO and Glock Talk.

Knowing what the OP actually wants and what his uses will be definitely will help us make recommendations.

For a general plinking/SHTF use, it is hard to beat a simple 16" carbine setup and I will stick with my suggestion for Palmetto State Armory for a reliable entry level AR.
 
On another forum my lower cost build a few labeled as "cheap and you get what you pay for". I could spend 3,500+ on an AR, but why when you can get 1 as good or better than just a name! Just because it's a military contact weapon doesn't make it the best....................just ask the early GI's that were issued AR's! I know a few that were lucky enough to survive their time with 1.
 
Megawatt maker said:
They do not offer and keep prices low by cutting corners, using cheaper materials, or moving production overseas...
Click to expand...

Materials & labor are the only two ways. Corners are cut somewhere, there is no magic potion for the manufacturing industry.

12Bravo20 said:
There is a thread on ARFCOM about how different brands of AR's and AR uppers last at the Henderson Range in Las Vegas where they are all shot on full auto year round. The PSA uppers have held up just as well as more expensive uppers under constant use.
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My take away from that thread that they are disposable. Its cheaper for them to buy then fix.
 
tarosean said:
Materials & labor are the only two ways. Corners are cut somewhere, there is no magic potion for the manufacturing industry.


My take away from that thread that they are disposable. Its cheaper for them to buy then fix.
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Like where? What corners do they cut?

I'll tell you...none. They don't cut corners.

Haters just gotta hate.
 
tarosean said:
Automatically labeled as a hater.. mmmmkay

I gave you two options pick one.. This exists in all manufacturing even if its toaster ovens, or whatever have you.

Does Fan Bois gonna fan boi? Make it more true or false?
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Well, it's not material, or labor. They use the same marerial as all the other top manufacturers. They advertise this.
You can goidle search thrm also, looking to see how people who work for them, feel about them, and overall, they are pretty happy..which means they pay well enough to keep the troops happy.

If they cut quality control, they haters would be quick to post links to all the complaints about all they junk stuff..but, no links..or complaints.

It's really simple how they do it. The use the sales 'volume" model..as in low profit per unit..but overall sales makes up for it.

The other big names make more per unit..and low volume sales. The costs to make a unit is most likely very close to the sane as it is for PSA...so, they make their money by greed....while PSA wishes to put an AR in everyone's hands..as they tell you in their advertising.

They don't cut corners. They don't use cheaper materials. They don't pay slave wages. They don't cut quality.

Their record speaks for itself. They are growing, while others, like Windam, are going under..

I can give another example. I was a 76y in the Army (supply), I saw how much the Government actually paid for things. An M16A1 set Uncle Sam back $125 in 1990. At that time, the Colt Civilian version was $1000-1400 back home at my LGS. Colt made a profit off the government contract..or they wouldn't have signed it. They made an absolute killing off the Civilian version.

PSA sells in volume..that's how they do it.
 
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CapnMac said:
Four pages, and we still don't know if OP wants
  • An SBR shorty
  • An M4 carbine clone
  • A 16" Carbine"
  • An 18" mid-length
  • A 20" 'classic' rifle
  • or a 22-24" long range/varmint rifle.
Let alone in what sort of caliber or capacity. We don't even know if OP wants a "truck" gun (which is a complicated question of its own) or not.

But, we are willing to bash each other for liking, or not liking X versus Y versus Z (and "go get a Glock!!11!!).

We're better than that, people.
Click to expand...

MY advice to everyone who either builds or buys has always been ; DECIDE BEFORE YOU BUY . Builds let alone completed purchases can become costly in a hurry , especially if plans change midstream :( . The weapon must be purpose intended ,IMO , otherwise one spins their grey matter as well as their bank account . Priority #1 WHAT is it's PRIMARY function going to be ? . Are you competing or seriously considering it ?. Then Spare NO expense . If you're simply kicking a can down or considering maybe some day going and trying Comp shooting , Don't buy or build a top tier weapon . Just do one to get you by and PRACTICE A BUNCH ,Before investing BIG $$$$$ !.

General purpose all around 0-500 yd. 18" barrel is doable ,if someone bangs 90% of their ammo at 100 yd. ,then 7.5-16" is gonna do just fine .
If one is stepping outside the 800 yd. zone ,.223 is IFFY at best but again doable but less than 20" ,they'll be disappointed . Better with 22-24" barrel .
 
CapnMac said:
Four pages, and we still don't know if OP wants
  • An SBR shorty
  • An M4 carbine clone
  • A 16" Carbine"
  • An 18" mid-length
  • A 20" 'classic' rifle
  • or a 22-24" long range/varmint rifle.
Click to expand...

Or how much he wants to spend…$1,500 “plinkers” sound a little outrageous!
 
A person has to buy within their limits. Not everyone makes the same amount of (or even a lot of) money. Spending $1,500 on an AR15 by going into debt or letting your kids starve isn't a sound plan. There are decent options at a lot of different price points that fit numerous requirements. As stated above, the requirements here are slim.

Generally speaking, you still get what you pay for and there are no free lunches.
 
HKGuns said:
A person has to buy within their limits.
Click to expand...

It’s not about how much they can afford…it’s about spending $1,500 on something that’s going to be a range toy or a plinked. If money is no object, then buy the best on the market - no input needed. Buying for home defense? Get the best you can afford. But getting something in the four digit range because you’re “curious”? That’s excessive.
 
I have owned at least a dozen AR rifles everywhere from polymer 80% guns not so well finished, all the way up to a Colt HBAR match. All of them are the same, but all of them are different. What I would say is that if you’re gonna tinker with it but cheap and build it nice. A basic gun such as a bear creek or PSA gun bought in halves and clipped together (2 little pins that slide in place, no tools required) gets you close to what you want (whatever that may be) pretty stinkin cheap. If you’re not an AR tinkerer then start a tier up with something like a M&P sport or Aero Precision. If you don’t ever think you will tinker with it at all, you find a configuration exactly what you want in something higher end (Daniel defense) or elite (noveske, troy, Barrett) then if the price tag is off putting then hammer down.

BUT, and I say this for all of the builders in the room, whatever you buy you can probably build better and/or cheaper except for the most basic guns out there. You’re not going to build a gun for less than the $400 of a bear creek rifle. You can build one just as cheap and be maybe slightly better quality, but cheap parts is still cheap parts even if they come preassembled. If you start with something like an aero precision lower and a drop in trigger pack with a lower parts kit and a stock kit then you get what you want in a lower for around 350-500 bucks. Whatever you spend on a lower is about 1/2 or 2/3 what you should spend on an upper. You can buy a faxon barrel (or other reputable brand) an upper reciever, upper parts kit, gas block, gas tube, free float hand guard, charging handle, and bolt assembly and put together as nice of an upper as you could imagine for about a grand (mine were more in the 400 range and shoot just fine, but I got lucky with decent barrels). You don’t have to have a $400 handguard, and it’s kinda stupid that they are so expensive. A $100 handguard will suffice, and look just as nice if you shop around. Add in $50 for all the tools needed to put an AR together and your into a quality gun that’s truly YOURS and what you wanted for about $1200 give or take a couple hundred.

AND on top of all this, if you post a city near you are, I would almost guarantee somebody here being willing to meet you somewhere and help put it together and get you going, that probably has tools and spare parts that you may want, and with this community I would lay strong odds that it would be free or for a beer or for a burger. That’s just how we roll around here.
 
Navy87Guy said:
It’s not about how much they can afford…it’s about spending $1,500 on something that’s going to be a range toy or a plinked. If money is no object, then buy the best on the market - no input needed. Buying for home defense? Get the best you can afford. But getting something in the four digit range because you’re “curious”? That’s excessive.
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I guess I'll have to disagree. People are generally stupider than you think. I wasn't always of this opinion, but its gotten worse, not better.

I've seen plenty of folks with more car than house and there are numerous other examples of people being deep in debt and one thing happens to push them over the edge. Its happened in my own immediate family.

Some can only legitimately afford one gun and I am sure there plenty of people who only own one gun. In that case its gonna be range toy, SD/HD and everything else.
 
HKGuns said:
I guess I'll have to disagree. People are generally stupider than you think. I wasn't always of this opinion, but its gotten worse, not better.
Click to expand...

My issue isn’t with the OP - it’s with the people who are advocating high end AR’s as a solution to his “interest” in an AR. I assume the OP will buy what he wants - but to me it’s insane to suggest a four digit AR to a guy whose just looking to get something to scratch an interest.

I get that too many people spend money they don’t have on guns (or anything else)…but my gripe is about poor recommendations.
 
Wow, still arguing this and the OP hasn't checked back in anywhere on THR since last Thursday afternoon (and he never did say exactly what he was looking for in an AR).

(Wasn't gonna post in this thread after the last AR-15 thread, the Colt thread that turned into a Colts are overpriced, PSA fanboi thread, but hey, post count)
 
Geez louise!!! The bickering about colt vs PSA is almost as bad as a new member welcome thread from ar15.com. I have personally had issues with colt. I have seen firsthand issues with PSA ar10 parts. Worst issues I have ever had were with Ruger and everybody touts Ruger as being top notch QC and top notch customer service. I got “it’s in spec” over trash twice... Fact of the matter is that the gun makers in general do a better job of QC than other industries and all of them put out junk occasionally. Price tag doesn’t necessarily indicate quality, but you generally see more attention to detail with higher priced parts.
 
Megawatt maker said:
Well, it's not material, or labor. They use the same marerial as all the other top manufacturers. They advertise this.
You can goidle search thrm also, looking to see how people who work for them, feel about them, and overall, they are pretty happy..which means they pay well enough to keep the troops happy.

If they cut quality control, they haters would be quick to post links to all the complaints about all they junk stuff..but, no links..or complaints.

It's really simple how they do it. The use the sales 'volume" model..as in low profit per unit..but overall sales makes up for it.

The other big names make more per unit..and low volume sales. The costs to make a unit is most likely very close to the sane as it is for PSA...so, they make their money by greed....while PSA wishes to put an AR in everyone's hands..as they tell you in their advertising.

They don't cut corners. They don't use cheaper materials. They don't pay slave wages. They don't cut quality.

Their record speaks for itself. They are growing, while others, like Windam, are going under..

I can give another example. I was a 76y in the Army (supply), I saw how much the Government actually paid for things. An M16A1 set Uncle Sam back $125 in 1990. At that time, the Colt Civilian version was $1000-1400 back home at my LGS. Colt made a profit off the government contract..or they wouldn't have signed it. They made an absolute killing off the Civilian version.

PSA sells in volume..that's how they do it.
Click to expand...
FN won the contract for production of the M16A2 in 1988, and their production kicked off in 1990. Their bid for each weapon produced was publicized at $420 per unit, which significantly underbid Colt. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/03/nyregion/army-drops-colt-as-m16-rifle-maker.html
 
DetBrowning said:
Cost is not quite a consideration but not looking to spend a ton.
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I have never been a big AR15 fan. When my state, "Oregon", started talking about banning them I figured I better buy one while I still can. I figured it was worth buying one good one instead of the several lower end AR rifles like many people seem to do. So I went with a SIG Spear LT and have since felt no need to buy any other AR. I like that it can use a true folding stock unlike most AR's. I was able to register the SIG under the brace ban bs. Shooting other AR's from friends all are kind of a let down, even the "fancy" expensive ones.

I do plan to buy a 6.75" 300AAC Blackout barrel for it and put a suppressor on it. The piston action is supposedly a better host for a suppressor because of the lack of gas being blown back in your face. The LT does come with an adjustable gas port for tuning for a suppressor.

I figure I have less money in my one and only AR than many who have a whole safe full of cheap AR's.
 
Whether one is a fan of the AR-15 platform or not, it is The American Rifle and it's my fervent belief that every American patriot and supporter of the Second Amendment and RKBA should own at least one specimen. After all, WE are the militia, right? I don't care if you buy a Del-Ton, DPMS (I'd rather you didn't) or a Noveske, Larue or Daniel Defense, just get out and buy one if you live in a state where you still can!

Gratuitous story: Man walks into his LGS with a thousand bucks in his pocket, not looking for anything (especially another AR, since he already owns several) but walks out with this (he only had black rifles and needed something in FDE).

saint.jpg
 
GNP said:
FN won the contract for production of the M16A2 in 1988, and their production kicked off in 1990. Their bid for each weapon produced was publicized at $420 per unit, which significantly underbid Colt. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/03/nyregion/army-drops-colt-as-m16-rifle-maker.html
Click to expand...
Yes, that was for the A2. My unit still had the A1. By 1994 we had the A2...

But my point still stands. In 1990, the price paid by the government (for a contract granted in the 80s..mind you)was $125 per unit..while the Civilian price was 10 tomes that number. I never priced the civilian GN version in the 90s. But you can bet it was a hell of a lot more than 450.

This is my point. The big names demand a higher price per unit, and have a lower sales volume as a result, while PSA offers the same product without the big name roll stamp at much lower price, and outsell everyone else 10-1 (I don't know the exact figure..it could be 10-1..might be higher or lower..but they outsell everyone by a significant margin without doubt)
GNP said:
FN won the contract for production of the M16A2 in 1988, and their production kicked off in 1990. Their bid for each weapon produced was publicized at $420 per unit, which significantly underbid Colt. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/03/nyregion/army-drops-colt-as-m16-rifle-maker.html
Click to expand...
 
The OP hasn't been back since starting the thread. I'm shutting this down as we are shouting past each other and to give them time to review the four pages of opinions already given. OP, if and when you come back and you want to answer some of their questions or add something let me know and I'll open it back up.
 
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