Looking for new info. K-frame cracking?

Landgroove

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Is there still any risk of cracking the frames on S&W K-frame .357s? Models 19 and 66,
At one time, it was a hot topic but haven't heard anything new about it.
I know the culprit was reported to be the light bullet (110 gr and 125gr) so I stopped using those.
I only shoot the 158 gr factory loads now.

👀
 
I remember it as being flame cutting of the top strap and cracked forcing cones but never heard of a cracked frame that I can remember. I have a 19 with all the factory bells and whistles and while it is a very nice revolver I have never been fond of shooting 357 anything in it. I did shoot some when I first got it but decided it's real calling is as a 38 special. 357 is better in one of their larger frames IMO.
 
Assuming the OP meant "forcing cones" rather than "frames", the new models no longer have the "flat" machined into the underside of the cones, so probably are no more susceptible to cracks than are any other revolvers. (The older versions presumably are just as susceptible as ever, if that is the question. I think the issue is probably overblown, but does exist, and being as replacement barrels are extremely difficult these days, caution is still wise.)
 
What .38 Special said, but also a personal anecdote. I found a nice looking K frame 357 in a local shop but upon inspection found the forcing cone was cracked at the flat. I pointed it out to the counterman and he immediately pulled it from display/sales. I don't actually know what S&W does or what their current policy is on such cracks. Myself I would limit full power 357 even in newer k frames, though I don't know if it's really necessary. S&W makes a point of the L frame as suitable for continuous magnum use. They don't say that on the K frames.
 
I suggest buying a current model, wearing it out, and testing Smith's "lifetime guarantee."
If you already have the original type, I commend Elmer Keith to you:
"With hand loads, the shooter should be careful to keep them just below factory loads in pressure. I particularly like my old heavy .38 Special load with Keith hollow point 160 grain bullet and 13.5 grains of No 2400."


I passed up a Real Deal on a Model 12 Airweight M&P. No cracks, very low price. I didn't buy it only because I already have one. I could have made money on it.

Freedom Arms used to offer replaceable forcing cones for their .454s. No longer, though.

I wonder if a Taylor Throat would be less prone to cracking. (Smooth freebore and gentle lead into the rifling.)
 
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Frames crack.


Guns with the new two-piece barrel can do more than just crack the forcing cone:

This is what kept me from M19 and M66. I noticed one thing on first post (thread from the link); apart from cracked frame, barrel didn't crack on the tinniest part of the barrel, but next to it. Also, this barrel doesn't look like factory one, but something aftermarket, or just made by a custom smith, see also ball lock.

For all those reasons I am looking now for Ruger Security Six, 6". Can't beat its combination of strength, durability and moderate weight. I am not going to shoot full throttle 110 and 125 grain, 99% will be cast 158-160 grains at about 1100-1200 fps. But when I shoot in rare occasions maximum loads, I don't have to worry is something going to crack.
 
Is there still any risk of cracking the frames on S&W K-frame .357s? Models 19 and 66,
At one time, it was a hot topic but haven't heard anything new about it.
I know the culprit was reported to be the light bullet (110 gr and 125gr) so I stopped using those.
I only shoot the 158 gr factory loads now.

👀
It wasn't frames that cracked, it was forcing cones. Current design does not have the weak spot at the bottom of the forcing cone the older guns did.
 
I wonder if a Taylor Throat would be less prone to cracking. (Smooth freebore and gentle lead into the rifling.)

That is a very interesting idea. Of course, I doubt very many of us are willing to experiment on our originals. I suppose if I cracked one, I'd be inclined to try welding it up and cutting a Taylor throat.
 
It wasn't frames that cracked, it was forcing cones. Current design does not have the weak spot at the bottom of the forcing cone the older guns did.

You're right. My goof. It was the forcing cone.
I've read so much conflicting data on the issue that I was wondering if it was still an issue.

As to the "new" versions, is it still the smaller K frame or the L frame?
 
You're right. My goof. It was the forcing cone.
I've read so much conflicting data on the issue that I was wondering if it was still an issue.

As to the "new" versions, is it still the smaller K frame or the L frame?
K Frame
 
There are several ways to greatly reduce a risk of a "K" frame forcing cone crack......

Don't shoot the hot 125 grain Magnum loads. These were the loads cracking usually happened with.

Buy a Lewis Lead Remover kit from Brownell's and use the forcing cone cleaner tip to remove copper and carbon fouling.
Many of the cracked cones were on badly fouled police guns with heavy build up on the cone.
 
Well, back in the days when I was an avid handloader and favored stout Magnum loads on the manuals, I did all my shooting with Ruger Blackhawks and Security-Sixes. I remember reading the experts who published in gun magazines of those years as usually opining that K-frames were made for carrying Magnum loads, but not using them for a steady, and especially heavy, diet.

Once I entered LE and found the issued .357MAG revolvers were a mix of 4" Pythons and M66's, I found that all qualifications and training were done with locally remanufactured 158gr LSWC +P. I never saw anyone burning up .357MAG ammo on the range (other than me). Made sense I guess, since they gave us ONE box of .357MAG when we were hired, and that was that. If you used that first box up for just range use (not an actual shooting incident), you had to buy more on your own dime, since that's what they told us annual uniform allowances were for. 😆 I suspected there were probably guys and gals who may never have fired Magnum ammo, but just carried it in their duty weapons. (Ditto the available reman qual loads for the guys and gals who carried .44MAG/SPL and .45Colt/ACP wheelies, too. The .44 qual loads were Specials, as I recall.)

While I did my best to try and wear out a number of Security-Sixes (and a Speed and Service-Six), and a couple Blackhawks, I never subjected my K-frames to that sort of wear and tear. One of the L-frames they issued for several years, sure, but I don't think I fired more than 3500 Magnum rounds through it.

I lost interest in reloading many years ago, and nowadays I only shoot my medium-frame .357's for occasional assessment of my DA revolver skills with Magnum loads. The bulk of my revolver shooting is done with my collection of J-frames, as I carry them a lot of the time and they demand more of me, so it helps keep my DA/DAO skills sharp. The couple of .357MAG J's really keep me on my toes. ;)

When I carry my 3" M65 or my 4" Service-Six, I use the remaining stash of my 125gr, 140gr or 145gr Magnum ammo. Mostly the 145gr, as I rather liked the 145gr STHP in my duty revolver days. Accurate, controllable and relatively low flash signature. I don't mind doing limited shooting with my remaining Magnum loads for drills and quals, but I don't want to dig too deeply into the supply I put away in the 80's and 90's. It's more difficult to find nowadays, and a helluva lot more expensive when you do. :uhoh:

When it comes right down to it, I don't mind carrying some of the better +P loads for defensive carry, but would still carry the Magnum loads if I were wandering the backwoods again.

Something else to consider is that in the 60's and 70's, unless you were a competition shooter or an active reloader it was very unsual to find anyone who fired more than 500rds the while time they may own a handgun. Back in those days torture/endurance tests meant shooting 5000rds. Maybe. Also, it wasn't uncommon to find that the 'average' Magnum revolver owner might never have finished shooting up the first 50rd box of Magnum ammo bought with the gun, too.
 
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I spent an afternoon shooting with Bill Jordan.
When he approached S&W on creating a new duty sidearm he envisioned gun lighter than the larger framed revolvers carried back then.

He wanted a gun capable of 357 rounds for duty but primarily using 38 specials for practice and training. The hot light bullets didn’t exist back then.
Thus the Combat Magnum was created.

You should have seen Bills hands. They were huge. He had to grind off part of the trigger guard to get his finger on the trigger in his model 19.

I learned a lot from that guy and it saved my hide several times.
 
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I have an S&W Model 19-4 with a 6” barrel that I cracked the forcing cone with a steady diet of full power 158 gr jacketed loads. I was shooting IHMSA handgun silhouette at the time.

Don’t believe that only 125 gr full power loads will crack the forcing cone.

This was early 1980’s and S&W replaced the barrel on their dime. They do not do that any more.

I shoot hot 38 Special+P loads in 357 Magnum cases in my Model 19 and 66’s these days and save the full power loads for L-frame and N-frame guns.

The current production Model 19 Classics and Model 66 have been changed to eliminate the weakness in the earlier production models.
 
I know two shooter who fired an amazing amount of rounds in competition through their K frame revolvers. I assumed both were 38 Special, and they fired 38 Special target loads. (typically a 148 LWC with 2.7 grains Bullseye powder) One said he had shot a quarter million rounds, the other 600,000 rounds. What did wear were cylinder stars, hands, to the point the timing of the cylinder was off. A firing pin broke.

The ten time PPC winner had fired 600 000 rounds through one K frame. He said when he had to shoot major loads, that cracked the forcing cone on one K frame.

Everything I read in print was 125 grain 357 loads were hard on the K frame forcing cone.

I think S&W fixed that with the L frame. I did not know till this thread that S&W had fixed it when they re introduced the K frame.
 
There's some discussion that the forcing cone cracks were primarily on the blued "K" frames, and seldom seen in the stainless steel versions.

I've see and heard about blue "K" frame cracks, but I never saw a stainless cracked.
 
I don't know if anyone really KNOWS what causes the forcing cone to crack, or if there is even one cause. I have heard of Ruger "Six" series, and Colt Pythons that did it too, but the only one I've ever actually seen in my life, was a Smith and Wesson Model 15, 38 Special. Go figure.
 
There's some discussion that the forcing cone cracks were primarily on the blued "K" frames, and seldom seen in the stainless steel versions.

I've see and heard about blue "K" frame cracks, but I never saw a stainless cracked.

That's a bit of welcome info.
My K-frame is a M66 6" bbl.

66 w-wud.jpg

I really enjoy this gun.

M66 targets.jpg

Not sure about that notation of 10 yards. I...think... the range was 15 yards. But WTH? 😜
 
There's some discussion that the forcing cone cracks were primarily on the blued "K" frames, and seldom seen in the stainless steel versions. I've see and heard about blue "K" frame cracks, but I never saw a stainless cracked.
Old dogs from my former club told me when buying S&W revolvers, to look for those -3 and up. According to them, on those models S&W introduced CNC machining, and because of close tolerances, assembly of those revolvers required far less fitting and fine tuning. In addition, some critical parts could be made from considerably harder, stronger steels, so durability of those revolvers is superior to older ones. Also, they told me that generally, -3 and up revolvers are more accurate than older models. One thing is certain, they sold all older S&W revolvers, and have just newer ones. Last but not the least, almost all revolver they shoot are made from stainless steel. BTW, those folks shoot half scale silhouettes, and are regularly on the range twice a week.

In that respect, it will be very interesting to see is any difference in forcing cone and frame cracking between -3 and up, and earlier models.
 
There are several ways to greatly reduce a risk of a "K" frame forcing cone crack......

Don't shoot the hot 125 grain Magnum loads. These were the loads cracking usually happened with.

Buy a Lewis Lead Remover kit from Brownell's and use the forcing cone cleaner tip to remove copper and carbon fouling.
Many of the cracked cones were on badly fouled police guns with heavy build up on the cone.
Correct that to do not shoot 357 Magnum loads period. I cracked the forcijg cone shooting a steady diet of 158 gr fuyll power 357 Magnum ammunition.

Don't believe the clowns that only 125 grain full power loads will crack the forcing cone. Model 19's were cracking forcing cone long before the internet became a thing. It is just about the time the internet got interested in 125 grain 357 Magnum loads, they were popular.

The Model 19/66 can safely digest a few full power 357 Magnum loads over time, but it will self destruct with a steady diet of any full power 357 Magnum loads. And any, I mean any bullet weight.

Don't believe me, shoot the sh**t out of your Model 19 and see how that does. Enjoy your paper weight.

I've been there/done that.

Fortunately, S&W fixed my revolver. Don;t expect that any more.
 
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I know two shooter who fired an amazing amount of rounds in competition through their K frame revolvers. I assumed both were 38 Special, and they fired 38 Special target loads. (typically a 148 LWC with 2.7 grains Bullseye powder) One said he had shot a quarter million rounds, the other 600,000 rounds. What did wear were cylinder stars, hands, to the point the timing of the cylinder was off. A firing pin broke.

The ten time PPC winner had fired 600 000 rounds through one K frame. He said when he had to shoot major loads, that cracked the forcing cone on one K frame.

Everything I read in print was 125 grain 357 loads were hard on the K frame forcing cone.

I think S&W fixed that with the L frame. I did not know till this thread that S&W had fixed it when they re introduced the K frame.
I'll agree, 38 Special rounds in a K-frame are pretty safe.

When you move up to 357 Magnum velocities, one begins to stress the the forcing cone of the barrels and the thinned portion on the bottom of the barrel.

When you move up to a steady diet of 357 Magnum ammunition in a K-frame revolver, you move into another world, regardless of the bullet weight used.

I like shooting my K-Frames S&W revolvers but not at risking them for future use. I shoot full power 357 Magnum ammunition N-frame an L-frame these days and save the K-frame guns for lighter use.
 
One question I've always had is what actually happens when the forcing cone on K frame cracks, and how many people have continued shooting hundreds or thousands of rounds through their cracked forcing cone without noticing?
 
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