Looking to buy a high capacity .308 rifle. Please help!!

[Tigerclaw_x]

Basically, looking to buy a .308 rifle. Prerequesites:
Low cost
Accuracy
Reliabilty
20-30 round capacity.

I have already narrowed my choice. Just need to see which would be more accurate:
Century G3 Cetme Clone. (I know that some of those are bad. Can you tell me what to look for to see the problem?). I hear from both, happy and unhappy Century CETME/G3 clone owners.
Yes, I know about PTR, but I can't afford it.
Vepr .308 (heard a LOT of good things about them), however, they are not battle rifles, and, from what I hear, tend to overheat rather quickly.
Saiga .308. Heard a lot of good things about them. Just see them as "vepr without bells and whistles".

Just how different Vepr is from Saiga in accuracy?

 

[geekWithA.45]

Nevermind. Sorry.

(I was recommending a PTR, just saw that it was out of his price range.)

 

[rbernie]

Search here for CETME and 'ground bolt head' and you'll drag up loads of text on what to look for. I have two CETMEs and I like 'em OK. I checked them out well when I bought them.

I prefer the Saiga in 308 over the CETME. Magazines are a lot more expensive, but the rifle is of more consistent build quality and easier to use.

This is a common topic - a search for Saiga 308 will also drag up lots of good feedback.

According to what I recall Correia posting here recently, a Vepr will probably hold half-an-MOA tighter than a Saiga.

 

[Smellvin]

You should look into WASR-10s. They're low-cost AK-clones like Saigas, but you don't have to convert them in order to get a pistol grip. From what I've heard (I don't own one) the accuracy isn't exceptional, though.

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

Uhh, not quite clear.

How do I check if the CAI G3/CETME has a ground bolt head.
Nobody around carries them, I am forced to buy the stuff online. So far, with Glock and CZ75 and TT-33, I do not regret anything that I have bought, however, I am more weary with the rifle. I have no chance to check it. basically it is mail order to my FFL.
So, am I right in understanding that you reccomend SAIGA .308 and VEPR .308 over Century Arms CETME and G3 Clones?

 

[1911JMB]

You can't go wrong with a Saiga. I never actually fired one, but they are Russian made AK's. I have seen them at a range, and talked to their owners. Just like any other AK from any manufacturer, they will never jam. The one problem is 45 dollar 20 rounders. Its a very reasonable price considering what FBMG had to do to make them, but CETME/G3 mags can be had for 2 bucks a pop.

If you got a good G3 or CETME it would be every bit as good as a Saiga, but it all depends on how drunk the guy who made it was that day. Century has a way of making 1980's Harley Davidson's look well made.

As for checking headspace on the Century's, its been discussed extensively. I'll see if I can find it with a search.

Edit: Heres a good thread- http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=226949&highlight=cetme+headspace+checking

 

[rbernie]

How do I check if the CAI G3/CETME has a ground bolt head.

Look at post #68 in this thread. The picture on the top/right of this post shows the normal bolt/bolt carrier relationship. Note that the edges where the bolt gap is measured is rounded on both parts. If the bolt head is squared off here (where the arrow is, essentially), it's probably been ground.

If you can't check it out in person or get good quality pictures of the bolt/carrier assembly as seen thru the magwell - don't by a CETME. That's harsh, but it's my opinion having handled a few of 'em.

So, am I right in understanding that you reccomend SAIGA .308 and VEPR .308 over Century Arms CETME and G3 Clones?

Yes.

 

[mkh100]

I did not see a dollar figure in your post, was there one ? did I miss it ?

Anyway the cetme/G3, it should be noted, accepts mags that are so much cheaper than just about any other 308 rifle out there that it can dramatically affect the overall ownership of the rifle.

You can buy Genuine H&K Rhinemetal (sp) mags for as little as $1 each. Saiga mags are something like $35 plus each (correct me if I am wrong)

robertrtg.com has some good info on what to look for in the Cetme/G3 clone rifles.

A PTR91 can still be found for less than $800, does not typically suffer any of the problems that plagued the Century Cetme, and represents the reliability gold standard the G3 Rifle is legendary for. Modular design makes changing forearms and stocks a simple 1 minute process.

A reliable PTR or problem free Cetme is difficult to beat with a redesigned commie gun (boy am I gonna get it for that )

Mike

 

[Deer Hunter]

Saiga, all the way. It fits the bill.

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

Question to MKH100

Where did you see PTR for $800? I have yet to see it for less then $900 even used on Gunbroker.com.

Thank you

 

[waterhouse]

I had to shop for a month or so, but my PTR 91 was $600 on gunbroker last year. Not sure what current prices are on the things.

I've heard good things about the Saigas but have no personal experience with them. For the price it looks hard to beat, other than the previously mentioned mag cost.

If money is a concern, keep the quickly rising .308 ammo prices in mind.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[mkh100]

Sarco Inc had them for $695



see them on thehighroad, glocktalk, and falfiles from time to time.

This one on gunbroker is at $850 right now with the upgraded forearm:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=68349980

another:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=68280061

That was just a quick search on the one board. Check around they are out there.

PS: Take a look at the dealer page from ptr91 inc. maybe a distributor close to you will have a good deal:

http://www.ptr91.com/dealers.html

 

[razorburn]

Yeah, almost bought one back then. Their prices were all over the place, sometimes found in the 600 range NIB, sometimes 1000+. Decided against it as I was looking for a moa or sub moa .308, decided to save for an ar10 instead.

 

[Zundfolge]

Prerequesites:
Low cost
Accuracy
Reliabilty

The more I shop around for a semi auto .308 myself, the more convinced I am that you can't get all three.

At best you can pick two of those (and in general, Low cost and Accuracy just don't go together).

Of what you've listed, I'd go for the Saiga because FBMG makes 20 round mags for it (20 round Vepr mags are hard to find and ain't cheap) and all reports I've read put them as being pretty much the same accuracy as the Vepr (which is to say, less accurate than an AR-10).

 

[glimmerman]

If u can find a G3 clone with the new us barrel buy it!! I have one, I put a mk4 leupold 3.5-10x40 on it and it is now in sniper config. It will shot one ragged hole all day with surplus match ammo at 100yds and sub 1/2moa at 300yds and i can bounce a 5 galon pale all over the range at 1000 yds. But remember u CANNOT!! shoot factory full house loads through the G3 or cetme. They are disigned for 7.62 nato and not the hoter factory loads. Also remember that the cetme and G3 are NOT!! the same. They do have some interchangeable parts but the internals are diferent!!

 

[000Buck]

Saiga 308 and a few FMBG mags. Saigas are new and you always know what you are getting. I have experience with four different ones and probably 1200 rounds between them and they all run flawlessly.

 

[JWarren]

Saiga 308 ALL the way.

John

 

[LoadedDrum]

In your price range the Saiga and some FBMG mags. My other thought is to get the VEPR and have Krebs convert it to take unmodified M1A mags as they are more available than the FBMG mags and cheaper too.

 

[JWarren]

The more I shop around for a semi auto .308 myself, the more convinced I am that you can't get all three.

Prerequesites:
Low cost
Accuracy
Reliabilty

I dunno.... Most Saiga's are doing about 1 MOA. That is by far accurate enough to do pretty much anything you need to do with it. Sure, you could do sub-MOA with some bolt actions and some AR platforms.

But when you consider what you have:

Low Cost (initially-- more if you convert)
Accuracy ( better than a lot of semi-autos)
Reliability (it's an AK )
High Capacity (FBMG 20 rounders)
Scope side rail (scope retains zero after removing it and remounting it)
Hard hitting full power cartridge


Customization options are endless. RSA even makes an adjustable trigger for it. ACE has stock adapters that will allow installation of both ACE skeleton stocks as well as AR stocks. The Magpul Percision Stock can be installed via an AR adapter. Mine has a PSG1 adjustable palm rest grip the helps a lot with accuracy. Some of the work I am planning to do on my 308 in the near future could possibly bring its accuracy sub-MOA with quality catridges.



John

 

[rangerruck]

saiga.

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

Vepr vs Saiga

According to a Russian Hunter website. Vepr 308 had an accuracy of 1.8-2.0MOA, and Saiga 308 had an accuracy of 2.3-2.7 MOA. Both rifles had a 520mm barrel. Both guns were fired at 0 degrees Centigrate with Wolf Ammo.
Other impressions of Russian hunters:
1) Saiga has a smaller recoil, due to a better stock.
2) Vepr has a better trigger.
3) Vepr is heavier.
4) Vepr's stock is a bit too short and the optica sight is mounted too high.

 

[Plink]

I've bought several Century builds over the years, despite warnings from knowledgeable folks. They were ALL junk. If you can avoid Century, I'd sure do it. You might look around for a decent FAL. They're a good value, fairly accurate and quite reliable if not built by Century.