Looking to develop a non toxic gun oil.

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Castor bean oil has a long and storied history as a 2-stroke lube, and as a component of some really good cast bullet lubricants. How toxic is castor? Don't people drink it?
 
Elkins45 said:
Castor bean oil has a long and storied history as a 2-stroke lube, and as a component of some really good cast bullet lubricants. How toxic is castor? Don't people drink it?
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In 2 strokes you are burning oil and need a low ash residue (low metallic content). Castor was better than refined oil but modern synthetics are even better.

Mike
 
Mineral oil is used as a laxative-lubricant, so it can't be toxic, but I wonder about its cold weather status as a gun lube. Never stuck a bottle of it in the fridge.

This thread reminded me, for what it's worth, that someone a long time ago recommended peanut oil for spring air rifles since it didn't diesel in these high-compression guns. This would imply that its high-temp properties are good.

Haven't seen it mentioned so far, but it might be worth looking into for the characteristics you want.

Unless you're allergic to peanuts, of course. < Not a joke.

Terry
 
J-Bar said:
I find it interesting that you are concerned with toxins in a smidgeon of lube, while exposing yourself to lead, powder, and primer residues...

...but good luck in your search!
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The lead exposure is minimal, depending on what kind of bullets you're using. The greater danger is lead dust that is created when the bullet impacts a steel backstop in an indoor range. Lots of range officers got lead poisoning on indoor ranges before they required a certain level of ventilation. I still try to avoid indoor ranges as much as possible.

I do wear disposable gloves when cleaning my guns. But that doesn't prevent casual exposure while handling and shooting them. I also like to keep a thin film of oil on all metal surfaces. And even if I don't shoot a gun very often, I still lubricate it every once in a while. Vegetable oils surprisingly make for outstanding corrosion protection.
 
Mineral oil has been linked to hormonal disruptions, specifically estrogen. Some research has also posited it may be carcinogenic
 
In 2 strokes you are burning oil and need a low ash residue (low metallic content). Castor was better than refined oil but modern synthetics are even better.
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Modern synthetics make better gun oils too, but toxicity is the primary issue for the OP.
 
I seriously doubt that anyone would have a problem with the tiny amount of contact they would have with any lubricant while maintaining their firearms. If you are that worried just wear nitrile gloves while applying one of the proven lubiciants.
 
coconut oil that is a liquid at reasonable temperatures
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That would be fractionated coconut oil, and is the basis for froglube.

OP, not to reinvent the wheel, but either Ballistol or Froglube would work just fine....
 
Why a non-toxic gun cleaner? What you're cleaning off negates the cleaner because it's somewhat toxic. Environmentalists don't shoot, so who's your target market?
 
grampajack said:
I did a little reading. Ballistol contains isobutyl alcohol. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid. It's actually been banned in some countries for anything that contacts the skin, like makeup.

I'm sure Ballistol is far less toxic than most CLPs, but I'm looking for something truly harmless. If Whole Foods was going to stock gun oil, that's the gun oil I'm trying to make.
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Amyl Alcohol and Isobutyl Alcohol are the products of natural fermentation of fruit. They occur in wines, beers and all distilled alcoholic beverages, e.g. brandies.

You can find various organic alcohols (among others) in Whole Foods' beer and wine section. Or my basement winery, for that matter.

Ballistol is about as close to what you want to produce as anything. The SDS is easy to find.
 
True. A gunsmith here bought some of the last that Brownells had, years ago. The last time I was in his shop, he had a can and a half left. It kind of vanished after he passed away and a couple of us were helping his widow sell off his stuff.

Isn't Jojoba oil supposed to be about the closest composition to whale oil?

Old timers liked bear tallow, said it wouldn't go rancid like other natural fats.
 
This isn't really what this thread is about, but here's my reasoning. Much of the chemicals in our daily lives which are supposed to be non toxic are actually harmful. Like someone said, mineral oil is an oestrogen, and perhaps even carcinogenic. Personally, I don't think there's ever a reason to put a petroleum product in your body. They're carcinogenic and wreak havoc on hormones. I have a sneaking suspicion that all these petroleum products are why breast cancer is through the roof these days and why so many women can't get pregnant. When I was kid, you could get a woman pregnant just by looking at her the wrong way, and now it takes a team of doctors.

Someone suggested PTFE. That's in the same category as mineral oil. It's supposed to be non toxic, but it's been linked to all kinds of health problems. Ballistol contains mildly toxic ingredients used in makeup and artificial flavorings, which has been banned in some countries. While I would much rather use ballistol than some other CLPs, it's not ideal.

More and more, I'm becoming convinced that all these "mildly toxic" substances in our environment are having a cumulative effect. When I was a kid, people hardly ever got sick, and now there's some new exotic autoimmune disease discovered every week. The only thing that's changed is that there are chemicals in everything we eat or put on our skin. Take antibacterial soap. When I was a kid, no one was worried about germs, and the only people who ever got fatty liver disease were hardcore alcoholics. Now you have kids getting it! And now they know why; antibacterial soap causes liver damage. The crazy thing is that people are still using it! In any halfway sane society, it would be banned, and here we are over a year past the study results and it's not even on the news.

Thus, I'm that guy who eats organic and uses all natural products as much as possible. But I spend a good deal of time shooting, handling, and cleaning guns; and I don't want to wear gloves every time I pick up a gun, so that's no solution. And I don't want to spend big bucks on frog lube or fireclean because I'm pretty well convinced I can come up with something better for less.
 
I think that miracle product "Fireclean" that had all the tacticool guys in a frenzy turned out to be Crisco.
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There was two months of discussion on that idea after someone made a very very poorly supported claim to that effect. You are not correct in saying it turned out to be crisco and there is a ton of info and discussion out there for anyone who cares to read up on that.
 
There was two months of discussion on that idea after someone made a very very poorly supported claim to that effect. You are not correct in saying it turned out to be crisco and there is a ton of info and discussion out there for anyone who cares to read up on that.
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vEGETABLE OIL, CLOSE ENOUGH....

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-veg-oil/

And ya, they got sued !|


And won...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/27/fireclean-vs-tuohy-dismissed/

Yes, it is crisco :D

The big difference between Froglube and Fireclean was that Froglube is coconut oil, plus additives ( a surfactant chief among them), wheras fireclean is....10000% markup pure vegetable oil. Its the types of vegetable oils that are in dispute. Obviously liquid at room temperature Fireclean is not Hydrolised , room temp solid Crisco.

Froglube actually cleans metal. Crisco doesnt, but makes a decent lube, and works well as any other liquid if you scrub with it enough.

Firecean isnt crisco per se- its multiple types of vegetable oils, they claim>>>

http://www.guns.com/2016/04/09/how-fireclean-got-compared-to-crisco/
 
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blarby said:
vEGETABLE OIL, CLOSE ENOUGH....

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-veg-oil/

And ya, they got sued !|


And won...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/27/fireclean-vs-tuohy-dismissed/

Yes, it is crisco :D

The big difference between Froglube and Fireclean was that Froglube is coconut oil, plus additives ( a surfactant chief among them), wheras fireclean is....10000% markup pure vegetable oil.

Froglube actually cleans metal. Crisco doesnt, but makes a decent lube, and works well as any other liquid if you scrub with it enough.

Firecean isnt crisco per se- its multiple types of vegetable oils, they claim>>>

http://www.guns.com/2016/04/09/how-fireclean-got-compared-to-crisco/
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I highly doubt that Fireclean is pure canola. People tried using canola oil, and it just doesn't work. Rapeseed oil is a poor choice anyways. If you're going to use an off the shelf frying oil, Safflower would be far better. If you used pure canola on your guns, they would be inoperable in less than a week due to drying.

As far as their markup, I'm sure it's heinous. Which is why I refuse to use their product, as I feel I can make something better for less money.
 
grampajack said:
I highly doubt that Fireclean is pure canola. People tried using canola oil, and it just doesn't work. Rapeseed oil is a poor choice anyways. If you're going to use an off the shelf frying oil, Safflower would be far better. If you used pure canola on your guns, they would be inoperable in less than a week due to drying.

As far as their markup, I'm sure it's heinous. Which is why I refuse to use their product, as I feel I can make something better for less money.
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I saw either an NMR or IR spec trace posted somewhere---it was close enough to pure canola as to make no practical difference.

Mix canola and coconut oil with some castor and I'll bet you'll have yourself a winner.
 
I don't think there is an unadulterated, common, food oil that is going to work like an oil modified for machine use. You can start with a hydrocarbon (mineral oil = Vaseline), or you can start with a food oil and alter it isn't something that is no longer food.

The real question is just how poor a lubricant you are willing to accept for the ability to avoid chemicals.


Meanwhile, our underpants are made of cotton that is saturated in pesticides, that "new car smell" are airborne chemicals you shouldn't be breathing and our drinking water comes to us in plastic bottles and pipes. I would prefer a non-toxic gun lube (freaks me out that people use ATF), but you have to draw a line somewhere.
 
I've heard different opinions of the IR spectroscopy graphs. Some people say that the bloggers misinterpreted them, others say that they prove it's canola oil. I just don't know. I took chem one, and it didn't even begin to get into that stuff, not that I would remember it anyway.

But, Fireclean has stated in no uncertain terms that it's not just canola oil, and their patent is for a blend of at least three vegetable oils, plus a bunch of additional requirements. If they were using straight up canola oil, then I think they would be getting sued about right now. Not only that, but I think it's illegal to file a fraudulent patent. They also made all kinds of statements to the court about it not being pure canola oil, so they would have committed a crime right there. They're either incredibly stupid or it's not just canola. If they were in such a legally precarious situation, then they probably wouldn't have had the balls to file that lawsuit (which I did not agree with at all BTW, and will never use their product just because of that).

Not to mention they supplied the stuff to various government agencies (another fine example of govment spending run amock). If they lied to the government, then they'll find themselves in the same boat as Eotech. Only probably worse, considering that this would be orders of magnitude more fraudulent than what Eotech did.

In short, I highly doubt that it's just canola, or even that it has canola in it for that matter. I would also suspect that the oils in it have been transesterified with some kind of fatty acid to make it perform well in cool weather. And it probably has some kind of additive to raise the smoke point.
 
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