What's your experience with non toxic, non petroleum based oils and solvents?

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armed85

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Do the non toxic, non petroleum based oils and solvents work as well as traditional petroleum and ammonia based oils and solvents?

Specifically, for an oil, I'm looking for a non toxic oil that will lubricate and prevent corrosion. For a solvent, I'm looking for a non toxic solvent that will remove copper as well as carbon.

The non toxic oils I know of is Eezox. Eezox is a good rust preventitive, but it's not a very good lube.

The non ammonia based copper solvent I know of is Bore Tech Eliminator. I don't have any experience with Bore Tech Eliminator.
 
I assume you're refering to Bore Tech Eliminator.

Do you use an ammonia based solvent? It, too, can cause damage to your bore and action if you don't clean it up.
 
I've been happy with MPro7 solvent. It gets stuff very clean. If you get some, try it out by re-cleaning a gun you thought was clean.

Their oil is very thin/light and useful for some purposes, but I use other gun oils and greases when I want something more viscous.
 
I've used two different water-based cleaning products on my guns: MPro7 and Simple Green.

They are good for specific applications. You just need to be sure you get rid of the water and re-oil or re-lube afterward.
 
I Routinely Use...

...a water-base solvent on handguns and rimfire rifles. It is similar to M-Pro-7 and was formerly sold as "Insight Bore Cleaner." At the time I purchased a gallon, I got a better price on it than I could have on M-Pro-7. That was around a decade ago and I'm still on the same gallon.

For high-power rifles I use solvents that dissolve copper but, at handgun velocities, I can see copper particles on the cleaning patches with this water-base solvent when I fire jacketed bullets at Magnum velocities.

As to rust, these solvents leave behind a rust-inhibiting residue so it's no problem.
 
For a lubricant, the best so far that I have tried is Militec-1. It lubricates even when it is wiped off and will protect metal from corrosion.
For a solvent to clean out copper fouling, I use Hoppe`s Copper Solvent.
But the Militec-1 in the barrel makes cleaning a lot easier.
 
I use Mobil 1 10W-30 (made from synthetic poly-α-olefins) as an all-around gun lubricant. It's not petroleum based, but it's probably not nontoxic. Beats the heck out of most gun oils as far as lubrication properties go, but probably doesn't withstand salt spray or other severely corrosive environments as well as a corrosion protectant would. I use Rem Oil or similar for exterior corrosion protection, as the Mobil 1 isn't "dry" enough.

For a bore cleaner, I use the Outers foaming bore cleaner. It's not nontoxic, but it stays exactly where you put it, doesn't drip, doesn't smell, and is easy to clean up.
 
Slip 2000 makes some a good synthetic oil. They claim it to be non-toxic, and it doesn't smell.

I don't know where you read eezox is non-toxic. It contains trichloroethylene (TCE), which is a nasty hepatotoxin and a possible carcinogen. You can recognize it by its sickly sweet smell similar to carbon tetrachloride.

Bore tech eliminator works great. The first patch down an M1 barrel came out blue. The second patch came out a deep indigo color. It also has no strong fumes.
 
Slip 2000 oil is very good, as is TSI301. For cleaning Slip makes "Carbon Killer", which is nontoxic. The Carbon Killer followed by Bore Tech Eliminator takes my barrels back to squeeky clean. MUST oil after using these.
 
i bought some slip2000 EWL and like it quite a bit, but i haven't used it all that much because the Machine Gunners Lube that Larue Tactical keeps sending me when I order stuff from them IS SO FREAKIN GOOD that i just can't get over it. Really, I'm in shock at what this product has managed to accomplish. I've never seen anything like it, and I've tried nearly every new super-high-tech lube fad.
 
I clean with either M-Pro 7 or Wipe Out foam. I don't know how toxic they may be but they are sure low odor and at least the M-Pro 7 is nonflammable.

As the one competitor said, I just use whatever lube they gave out free samples of at the last match.
 
I've used Slip 2000 in the past. It doesn't give off any noxious fumes, so it has that going for it.

I'm taking a page out of sm's book and decided to try out ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) for a while. At $4a quart that's about as cheap as you can get... and I figure the old guy knows what he's doing. :)
 
Another nasty rumor discredited....

I use Mobil 1 10W-30 (made from synthetic poly-α-olefins) as an all-around gun lubricant. It's not petroleum based...

This is a patently false statement. Mobil 1 is just as petroleum based as any other motor oil. Where do you think those carbon-carbon polyalphaolefins come from? Any hydridocarbyne, or substance prefixed with "poly" is in fact petro-chemical based substance. If you had even a minimal understanding of lubricants, motor oil in this case, you would know that motor oil, and its additives, are in fact a lubricant only when heated and under pressure. Modern motor oil is a closed evironment lubricant. What part of any firearm you own is a closed environment and when is it under pressure?

The chemical compounds used to make synthetic oil are not found naturally in petrloeum (crude oil), but are synthesized from petroleum through a process called hydrocracking or hydroisomerization. This process aligns the carbon bonds so that they effectively pack, or settle, into such a tight compound, they become exceptionally heat resistant. This is why synthetic oils generallly won't burn.

That being said, I happen to believe motor oil is absoluely the worst "lubricant" you could possibly use on any firearm....
 
I don't like them... then again it might be my back ground as a industrial painter...
 
For cleaning, I've found the Slip 2000 product very good. I regularly use the Carbon Killer and Copper Remover to clean my guns.
 
motor oil, and its additives, are in fact a lubricant only when heated and under pressure

So are you saying that motor oil provides no lubrication to an engine until it nears operating temperature?
 
This is a patently false statement. Mobil 1 is just as petroleum based as any other motor oil. Where do you think those carbon-carbon polyalphaolefins come from? Any hydridocarbyne, or substance prefixed with "poly" is in fact petro-chemical based substance.
They are primarily synthesized from ethylene gas, a component of natural gas. Yes, you can get some ethylene from fractional distillation and catalytic cracking, but most comes from gas wells, not crude oil.

My point was, PAO's are not petroleum distillates, nor are they merely long-chain alkanes. And you don't have to be condescending about it.

If you had even a minimal understanding of lubricants, motor oil in this case, you would know that motor oil, and its additives, are in fact a lubricant only when heated and under pressure.
I do have "even a minimum understanding of lubricants." Stop being so condescending, please.

Here is the relevant data for Mobil 1 10W30, which is crossposted from THR's own Gun Slinger, but you can find the data for yourself on the BITOG forums, of which I am a member:

Mobil 1 10W-30
Pour point: -49.0 F
Flash point: +453.2 F
Viscosity at 100 degrees F: 62.0 cSt
Viscosity at 212 degrees F: 10.0 cSt
Transient operating range: 484.2 F
Viscosity Index: 148

Militec-1 gun oil
Pour point: -45.0 F
Flash point: +455.0 F
Viscosity at 100 degrees F: 43.41 cSt
Viscosity at 212 degrees F: 5.63 cSt
Transient operating range: 500.0 F
Viscosity Index: 63

I don't have full data for Rem Oil, but the viscosity is only 25 cSt at 100 degrees and goes downhill from there. Rem Oil is roughly 50% MINERAL SPIRITS and 50% petroleum distillates, with a little PTFE thrown in. Here's the MSDS if you don't believe me:

http://www.remington.com/pdfs/msds/guncare/remoil-liquid.pdf

Most "gun oils" are repackaged conventional oils. There may sometimes be a surfactant added, but usually even the additive packs are similar. And the "gun oils" that double as cleaning solvents are compromises as lubricants, because the solvent function makes the oil of necessity TOO THIN for the best lubrication.

it is true that you may end up with less corrosion inhibitors in the additive pack in Mobil 1 than in a gun oil, so it might not be the best choice for rust prevention (I use Boeshield T-9 for that). But as a lubricant, Mobil 1 kicks the butt of most high-solvent gun oils, including Rem Oil. And I know Mobil 1 has a good ZDDP profile; I don't know if Rem Oil does or not.

FWIW, I have used both on my guns, and there is noticeably less operating friction when cycling the action when lubricated with Mobil-1 than when lubricated with Rem Oil. The only thing I use Rem Oil for is for lightly oiling the exterior for short-term storage, as Mobil 1 leaves too thick a coat.

Modern motor oil is a closed evironment lubricant. What part of any firearm you own is a closed environment and when is it under pressure?
I'd say it is for practical purposes on the microscopic scale when the bearing surfaces are under high shear. And Mobil 1 produces a lot thicker residual film than most gun oils, and is much less likely to evaporate over time.

From personal observation, Mobil 1 lasts a lot better in the open environment of a firearm than either Rem Oil or Hoppes Elite.

The chemical compounds used to make synthetic oil are not found naturally in petrloeum (crude oil), but are synthesized from petroleum through a process called hydrocracking or hydroisomerization. This process aligns the carbon bonds so that they effectively pack, or settle, into such a tight compound, they become exceptionally heat resistant. This is why synthetic oils generallly won't burn.
I know that. Again, no need to be condescending.

That being said, I happen to believe motor oil is absoluely the worst "lubricant" you could possibly use on any firearm....
I disagree, at least with regard to synthetics. I would not put petroleum-distillate motor oil on a gun except in a pinch (if for no other reason than the smell), but reasonably heavy synthetics (10W30 or higher) have excellent lubrication properties.

The worst possible lubricants would be thin lubes with no zinc dithiophosphate wear inhibitors. Motor oils are pretty good.
 
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