That's true for me, too. I just wanted for you to know that there are options. And there are issues about SD that bother me lots more than a trigger kit.
Looking To Replace My Current EDC Pistol
- Thread starter SwampWolf
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SwampWolf
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Absolutely! It's the exact configuration I had in mind and, as a bonus, I much prefer leather in terms of the material any holster is made of. Thanks Spats (JTQ also provided me with some interesting and viable options which I'm grateful for). The next question, of course, is will the holster fit whichever pistol I finally come up with; after all, no one should ever decide on a pistol just because it fits the leather of their dreams.
Also, taking your advice, I was able to handle a Shield pistol chambered in 9mm and I can see why you like it. Though the store did not have an extended magazine on hand to try, I share your aversion to magazine sleeves used to extend the length of the grip (in addition to adding to the ammunition capacity in most cases). Every one I have ever tried brought with it a disconnect feeling with the grip. You may have to look hard for it (making the criticism sort of inconsequential, I suppose) but that extension sleeve always manages to rear its ugly wiggle. My lgs advised that they expect to get Shield mags with extension sleeves that I can "try on" any day now. I will say, however, that I'm surprised that a pistol as large as the Shield is doesn't have a greater initial ammunition capacity.
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So I have a question about the 'concealment'. I see the retention idea and I use a Dara level 2 retention holster which requires me to wear my shirt untucked for concealment.
Looking at the thumb break IWB holsters, I see that you would still need to untuck your shirt for concealment.
So if it's a matter of concealment, IMHO the point is moot. Also IMHO the OWB Level II is more comfortable. Dara also has options for light-bearing and/or optics. They shipped very quickly and their product is great.
BTW mine is for a p365XL with a TLR-6 weapons light. I did get it optics cut (I think that's the default) but I wear my p365XL without optics for EDC although I have a p365XL with a Romeo Zero and TLR-6 (I assume the Romeo Zero will just stay on and deplete the battery).
Big thumbs up on a p365 for EDC. I have several. The p365 SAS takes some getting used to but a p365 with manual safety will probably be great for you.
Looking at the thumb break IWB holsters, I see that you would still need to untuck your shirt for concealment.
So if it's a matter of concealment, IMHO the point is moot. Also IMHO the OWB Level II is more comfortable. Dara also has options for light-bearing and/or optics. They shipped very quickly and their product is great.
BTW mine is for a p365XL with a TLR-6 weapons light. I did get it optics cut (I think that's the default) but I wear my p365XL without optics for EDC although I have a p365XL with a Romeo Zero and TLR-6 (I assume the Romeo Zero will just stay on and deplete the battery).
Big thumbs up on a p365 for EDC. I have several. The p365 SAS takes some getting used to but a p365 with manual safety will probably be great for you.
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Yes. That 'disconnect feeling' is the wiggle I was talking about. I don't quite understand why your LGS didn't have an extended mag on hand to try. My Shield came with one 7 rounder and one 8 rounder.
SwampWolf
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I'm not sure what the point is that you find to be moot. What point? As an aside, I never tuck a shirt in unless I'm attending a wedding or a funeral.
The moot part is the 3" difference between the exposed loops and the bottom of the OWB holster.
SwampWolf
Member
It was used and didn't have the spare with it. Like I said, new Shields are due in any time (my lgs has a lot of pistols on hand and they don't seem to have much trouble getting more) and they will have the mags to try.
SwampWolf
Member
I still don't know if I'm understanding what you're getting at. Are you comparing the difference in terms of the exposed area existing between iwb and owb holsters? Are you saying that you might as well wear an owb holster as one that is worn inside? It's an interesting point, if that's what you mean, but I don't recall anyone else making it, much less, arguing about it.
yes, that's what I meant and I'm not trying to argue. In fact, based on this thread I have several of the IWB thumb break holsters bookmarked.
I just don't understand the rationale.
For me if it is absolute concealment I would go with a tuckable or a pocket holster. For those you don't need a thumb break.
If the main aim is retention, especially against an aggressor, I would go with a holster designed for that in mind. These do not include IWB holsters.
Add to that I find that carrying IWB is uncomfortable and exposes your firearm (and holster) to sweat. But that's just me.
I have a myriad of holsters. Including pocket holsters for my p365 with light and various velcro holsters for my p365 SAS. I find the SAS to be particularly suited to velcro holsters since it has no front sight to snag.
Now I do get an IWB for every new pistol but that's mainly a reflex at this point.
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Here is my Dara holster:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-level-ii-holster-for-my-p365xl-with-light.871359/
We have OWB here in TN so the leg straps were not concerning to me (but they were unexpected and can be removed).
Link to the holster above (with leg straps):
https://www.daraholsters.com/light-bearing-level-ii-duty-holster/
Link to various other Level II Holsters:
https://www.daraholsters.com/level-ii-retention-holster/
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-level-ii-holster-for-my-p365xl-with-light.871359/
We have OWB here in TN so the leg straps were not concerning to me (but they were unexpected and can be removed).
Link to the holster above (with leg straps):
https://www.daraholsters.com/light-bearing-level-ii-duty-holster/
Link to various other Level II Holsters:
https://www.daraholsters.com/level-ii-retention-holster/
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SwampWolf
Member
That's me too. But wearing a pistol inside the waistband of the pants does conceal the holster-and wearing it outside the pants doesn't.
That's why drawers were invented.
That's me too. But wearing a pistol inside the waistband of the pants does conceal the holster-and wearing it outside the pants doesn't.
That's why drawers were invented.
I also just ordered an Alien Gear waist belt system for my p365 that should cover me when I wear sweatpants.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-method-of-concealment.874661/#post-11634537
SwampWolf
Member
Regarding the issue (at least for some of us) of extended magazine sleeves, in addition to sampling many pistols while at the lgs, I tried the Shield's big brother, the Smith & Wesson M&P M2.0 Compact, on for size. Because of how well the M2.0 Compact seemed to fit me, as well as it having some other features I appreciate ( increased magazine capacity, manually operated safety, etc.), I reread an article in this month's Personal Defense World's magazine (Concealed Carry Handguns) written by Richard Johnson, entitled "Midsize Fighter".
In it, he reported, "...For the guns chambered in 9mm, Smith & Wesson includes both a flush-fitting 15- round magazine and an extended 17-round magazine...The extended magazine comes with a plastic spacer that slides down over the magazine body. This spacer does two things: It gives you more surface to grip and prevents you from damaging the ejector when inserting new magazines.
"The spacer sleeve for the Compact is similar in design to the spacer used on extended magazines for the Shield. Due to the small size of the Shield, that gun's spacer hangs on the meat of my hand when I try to eject it. To fix that serious problem, I went with an aftermarket solution called MagFIX (magfix.com) that corrects the problem entirely.
"On the larger Compact pistol, the spacer sleeve did not cause me the same problems with ejection. However, another flaw of the spacer is that it can slide up the magazine body and hinder the insertion of a new magazine. For the average uniformed police officer who carries a pair of spare magazines, the appeal of having extended magazines in your pouches is obvious. But the factory spacers can cause problems. I would recommend staying with the flush-fitting magazines until MagFIX updates its line to include a solution for this pistol..."
Well, it's good to know that if there is a problem, there's a fix for it.
In it, he reported, "...For the guns chambered in 9mm, Smith & Wesson includes both a flush-fitting 15- round magazine and an extended 17-round magazine...The extended magazine comes with a plastic spacer that slides down over the magazine body. This spacer does two things: It gives you more surface to grip and prevents you from damaging the ejector when inserting new magazines.
"The spacer sleeve for the Compact is similar in design to the spacer used on extended magazines for the Shield. Due to the small size of the Shield, that gun's spacer hangs on the meat of my hand when I try to eject it. To fix that serious problem, I went with an aftermarket solution called MagFIX (magfix.com) that corrects the problem entirely.
"On the larger Compact pistol, the spacer sleeve did not cause me the same problems with ejection. However, another flaw of the spacer is that it can slide up the magazine body and hinder the insertion of a new magazine. For the average uniformed police officer who carries a pair of spare magazines, the appeal of having extended magazines in your pouches is obvious. But the factory spacers can cause problems. I would recommend staying with the flush-fitting magazines until MagFIX updates its line to include a solution for this pistol..."
Well, it's good to know that if there is a problem, there's a fix for it.
I did some googling around, and the magfix thingamabob may not be available any more. The magfix website is up for sale, and I couldn't find any of their spacers available anywhere. Perhaps some will show up on ebay?
ETA: Looks like Safety Solutions Academy may own magfix now? Or maybe magfix had a name change?
ETA: Looks like Safety Solutions Academy may own magfix now? Or maybe magfix had a name change?
JTQ
Member
You have a reasonable point about the length of a cover garment and concealment.
I'll argue there are two key points in concealment, 1. covering the length of the muzzle, which is your argument, and 2. pulling the grip close to the body.
1. With an IWB holster, your cover garment doesn't need to be as long as the cover garment would need to be for an OWB holster. Admittedly, with little guns like some are discussing, like the S&W Shield or the SIG P365, with most concealment OWB holsters, there isn't much barrel length extending below the bottom of the belt, so the cover garment length requirement isn't much different between IWB and OWB, but it still is a difference. With a big gun, like the FN you pictured, or a G34 or 1911, it could be the difference between wearing a t-shirt as a cover garment or having to pick something longer than a sport coat.
2. The second concealment issue is pulling the gip close to the body. Little guns are also less of a concern in this area since their grips are so short, but the key feature of any OWB concealment holster is the trailing loop that pulls the grip of the pistol close to the body.
Using the Milt Sparks catalog to make the point would be examples of the 55BN ( https://www.miltsparks.com/products-55-bn.php ) a Nelson #1 Professional with a tunnel loop and trailing loop, and the i-Bak ( https://www.miltsparks.com/products-i-bak.php ) a modified Baker Pancake that has a loop in front of the pistol and the trailing loop. Both designs pull the grip of the pistol close to the body to aid concealment.
Without the trailing loop, on a holster as your recommended Dara holster, which would be considered a competition/training holster (the Sparks equivalent would be the 1AT - you'll have to search the Gallery - https://www.miltsparks.com/gallery.php#swipebox ), and with the retention device a duty holster, there is nothing to pull the grip of the pistol close to the body.
Most IWB holsters don't need the trailing loop feature since the holster being inside the pants provides this function anyway, but many holster makers add features to their IWB holsters to increase this effect.
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JTQ
Member
You may want to try the M&P 2.0 Sub-Compact ( or the original M&P Compact which is basically the same size gun https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/archive-mp-9c-compact ) https://www.smith-wesson.com/pistols or the M&P 2.0 Compact https://www.smith-wesson.com/pistols . Both designs would be fairly small and light, with a thumb safety option, and greater capacities than the Shield.
Edit to add: I see above you tried the 2.0 Compact.
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JTQ
Member
The late Paul Gomez on "Choosing Gear for Concealed Carry", Skip to about the 4:45 mark and continue to about the 5:20 mark.
JR24
Member
Sure, leather offers some small additional friction retention, but not much in my opinion.
Another reason why I prefer to carry in front of the hip, impossible for someone to sneak/grab my pistol unless the perp happens to have a hand basically down my pants to begin with. So I guess the honeypot is a danger
SwampWolf
Member
A couple of days ago, I was looking at a CZ 75D Compact pistol, chambered in 9mm Luger and noticed that ".40" was stamped on the left side of the magazine, along with three round count holes (5, 8 and 11), and "9 mm" was stamped on the right side of the magazine, along with three round count holes (5, 10 and 15). I don't think I've ever seen it done this way before. Is this a common practice now or relatively rare?
J-Bar
Member
I don’t know how common it is generally, but I think it is common to many CZ handguns. When looking at full size CZs, the gun store employee made a point of showing that (some) CZ magazines can be used for both 9mm and .40 caliber pistols. The magazines for my RAMI are not marked that way ( in fact they have no caliber markings at all) so I’m guessing the dual caliber magazines are for the larger CZ models, not my sub-compact.
SwampWolf
Member
After much research and handling pistols of all sizes and shapes (lots of fun when doing this but, if you're not careful, you will get lost in the search and forget what you were after and why in the first place), I finally made my decision: the CZ model 75 Compact PCR. Yes, it's hard to make the argument that the CZ Compact brings anything more to the table than my proven S&W Model 6906 did, except that it feels much more "friendly" to my hand and, as mentioned earlier, I just wanted to look at a new face. I've had a CZ Model 85 B for years that I really like and having its kid brother, albeit with a decocker, made a lot of sense. I think I was lucky to find one at my lgs and $569.99 seemed "fair" given the status of today's gun buying situation (sell high; buy high).
The downside to having a CZ pistol is finding a mainstream holster-maker that makes holsters for them. Galco doesn't even mention CZ as an option for any of their products on their website and I can't find any DeSantis holsters made for CZ pistols. In addition to an iwb holster, I want an owb holster that rides relatively high with an "FBI" configured cant, having a thumb-break for retention and preferably lined. Any suggestions? Thanks.
The downside to having a CZ pistol is finding a mainstream holster-maker that makes holsters for them. Galco doesn't even mention CZ as an option for any of their products on their website and I can't find any DeSantis holsters made for CZ pistols. In addition to an iwb holster, I want an owb holster that rides relatively high with an "FBI" configured cant, having a thumb-break for retention and preferably lined. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Congratulations!
Ernie Bass
member
Beretta Nano in DeSantis OWB and Kahr CM9 in the same.
I did a little wandering about the internet and found a couple of candidates. I cannot vouch for any of them, having never used their products. That said, I found a few that appear to have holsters to fit your pistol:
https://www.craftholsters.com/comfortable-leather-belt-holster
https://tuckergunleather.com/pancake-holster/
https://www.highnoonholsters.com/ca...wfc_material=3611&wfc_position=3824&x=68&y=24
https://azulagunholsters.com/product/thumb-break-owb-2-slot-pancake-belt-holster/
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