Low Bore Axis 9mm.
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choochboost
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Does a 9mm have a lot of muzzle flip?
VegasDude
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What do you want, that the Steyr doesn't have? I love mine... it it awesome. It shoots great, has 14 rd capacity and takes all of five seconds to disassemble (if I am taking my time) 
MTMilitiaman
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As mentioned, Glock does pretty good in the bore axis department. My Glock 20 has less muzzle flip shooting full power Double Tap ammo than my USP Tactical shooting standard .45 ACP ball.
I have no experience with the Glock 9mms personally, but the 10mm is pretty stout. While controllable, it is on the upper end of what I personally consider suitable for self defense--right up there with its ballistic partner, the .357 Magnum. If the design of the Glock is such that it can make the 10 Auto that controllable and pleasent, I am sure the 9mm Glocks would be kittens.
I have no experience with the Glock 9mms personally, but the 10mm is pretty stout. While controllable, it is on the upper end of what I personally consider suitable for self defense--right up there with its ballistic partner, the .357 Magnum. If the design of the Glock is such that it can make the 10 Auto that controllable and pleasent, I am sure the 9mm Glocks would be kittens.
Mac Attack
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Sig 210 has a low axis to bore ratio.
armoredman
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CZ75.
ccw9mm
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The CZ 75 line is pretty good. I've got a 28oz CZ P01 with very little muzzle flip. The barrel and slide sit fairly well down, inside the frame. Though the hand could be higher toward the bore axis, it's good enough for great control, even on the lighter examples like the P01/PCR.
ugaarguy
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Method of breech locking
I don't own a Px4, but I can give you bore axis info on it. Most pistols, Glocks included, use the Browning tilt-breech underlugged barrel method of locking the breech. This necessitates keeping the bore high enough to make for the lugs and clearance for them to tilt into the frame to unlock the breech. On the other hand the Px4 uses the rotating barrel method of locking the breech. The lugs are more of a thickened area area around and just forward of the chamber with a groove cut diagonally in it to accomplish breech locking, which makes the overall bbl height from the bottom of the lug to the top of the hood shorter than using the tilt breech system. Bore axis is allowed be kept lower still in the frame because the barrel rotates concentric to its bore axis to lock and unlock the breech so it does not need any additional clearance for the barrel to tilt. Hopefully that all made sense. Some also reason that since the rotating barrel recoils strait along its axis while unlocking, rather than the muzzle tilting up, that muzzle flip is reduced and recoil feels more linear. From my experience firing a CZ 24, which also employs a rotating bbl for breech lockup, I would agree.
I don't own a Px4, but I can give you bore axis info on it. Most pistols, Glocks included, use the Browning tilt-breech underlugged barrel method of locking the breech. This necessitates keeping the bore high enough to make for the lugs and clearance for them to tilt into the frame to unlock the breech. On the other hand the Px4 uses the rotating barrel method of locking the breech. The lugs are more of a thickened area area around and just forward of the chamber with a groove cut diagonally in it to accomplish breech locking, which makes the overall bbl height from the bottom of the lug to the top of the hood shorter than using the tilt breech system. Bore axis is allowed be kept lower still in the frame because the barrel rotates concentric to its bore axis to lock and unlock the breech so it does not need any additional clearance for the barrel to tilt. Hopefully that all made sense. Some also reason that since the rotating barrel recoils strait along its axis while unlocking, rather than the muzzle tilting up, that muzzle flip is reduced and recoil feels more linear. From my experience firing a CZ 24, which also employs a rotating bbl for breech lockup, I would agree.
LoadedDrum
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Glock or CZ variants as previously stated.
SP01 from CZ has the combination of low bore axis and high mass (over 40oz) which is only surpassed by porting in reducing muzzle flip. My G17C had the lowest flip of any gun I have ever tried but my SP01 is nothing to sneeze at in this regard.
SP01 from CZ has the combination of low bore axis and high mass (over 40oz) which is only surpassed by porting in reducing muzzle flip. My G17C had the lowest flip of any gun I have ever tried but my SP01 is nothing to sneeze at in this regard.
Spackler
Member
Maybe try the S&W M&P.
MTMilitiaman
Member
That's a great picture teombe. It does a good job of showing just what a crappy bore axis the HK has. Since I have gotten used to my Glock 20, when I go to bring up my HK USP Tactical, I find that I am looking at about the back of the hammer/firing pin about an inch underneath the rear sight just because that is how much lower the Glock sits in the hand than the HK. Some people try to convince me that bore axis doesn't make much of a difference. I call bullpucky on that one.
I don't believe the whole low bore axis thing either. So many other factors involved. Frame and slide weight. Recoil spring strength. Personally I feel the P7 has a very snappy recoil. My SP-01 is very soft shooting. Glock G17 is nice too. My Steyr M9 also felt snappy. My USP9F's were somewhere in between. Different strokes for different folks.
"As for the P7 - I think I am the only person on the planet that was underwhelmed "
You are not alone. I didn't what the big deal was with them either. I am a HUGE 9mm fan and single stack medium frame 9mms in particular and I still didn't get all exicted about it. It is a well made gun but not in anyway the end all and be all of single stack 9mms.
I like the Kahr K-9. Super low bore axis by design and less recoil than it should have considering the size. You can actually get a good grip in the Kahr as well unlike the Glock so that also helps in terms of controlling recoil. Glocks are good guns but they need to make the grip a little more ergonomic.
The 1911, Beretta, XD-9, SIGs, and Rugers all have fairly high bore axis. I don't think bore axis alone is the most important thing to reduce recoil but all other factors being equal, the lower the bore axis, the better it is going to point and handle recoil. It is science.
I think Glocks and Karhs are some of the the lowest bore axis guns out there.
You are not alone. I didn't what the big deal was with them either. I am a HUGE 9mm fan and single stack medium frame 9mms in particular and I still didn't get all exicted about it. It is a well made gun but not in anyway the end all and be all of single stack 9mms.
I like the Kahr K-9. Super low bore axis by design and less recoil than it should have considering the size. You can actually get a good grip in the Kahr as well unlike the Glock so that also helps in terms of controlling recoil. Glocks are good guns but they need to make the grip a little more ergonomic.
The 1911, Beretta, XD-9, SIGs, and Rugers all have fairly high bore axis. I don't think bore axis alone is the most important thing to reduce recoil but all other factors being equal, the lower the bore axis, the better it is going to point and handle recoil. It is science.
I think Glocks and Karhs are some of the the lowest bore axis guns out there.
huntershooter
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P-35/Browning HI Power has a low bore axis in relation to web of hand. My favorite 9mm platform after the 1911.
Low bore axis 9mms that I can think of right now, and have shot:
CZ-75
BHP
P7
M&P9
Well, I shot an M&P40. All are very good guns. The CZ is a DA/SA that can be carried cocked and locked. The BHP is a traditional SA. The P7 is a squeezecocker, and the M&P is a striker-fired polymer duty gun.
I think any one of them would be a killer addition to a collection of 9s. I own two (BHP, P7), and am about to own a M&P in .40 S&W. The CZ just never really called to me, even though there is not a darned thing wrong with it.
I think the whole bore axis thing is a relevant factor, but that it can be overstated. You can compensate for it with technique, but it's nice to not have to do so. I think a lot of mediocre shooters blame poor performance on barrel flip due high barrel axis.
Mike
CZ-75
BHP
P7
M&P9
Well, I shot an M&P40. All are very good guns. The CZ is a DA/SA that can be carried cocked and locked. The BHP is a traditional SA. The P7 is a squeezecocker, and the M&P is a striker-fired polymer duty gun.
I think any one of them would be a killer addition to a collection of 9s. I own two (BHP, P7), and am about to own a M&P in .40 S&W. The CZ just never really called to me, even though there is not a darned thing wrong with it.
I think the whole bore axis thing is a relevant factor, but that it can be overstated. You can compensate for it with technique, but it's nice to not have to do so. I think a lot of mediocre shooters blame poor performance on barrel flip due high barrel axis.
Mike
otomik
Member
exactamundobg226 said:
personally I think the new Steyr M1A series looks fantastic, I've said it before but I'd really love to see a gun with a low bore axis like that also use a rotating barrel system like the PX4. I think such a gun would be a very soft shooter.
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