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"Lucky" T/C Renagade

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by TWC, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. TWC

    TWC Member

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    Yesterday morning I told my daughter that today is going to be a good day. Trying to help her and I to be positive despite our obstacles.. Any way pal tells me about a B.P. rife with a "broke firing pin". That had my attention,not being familiar with any B.P. rifle with a firing pin. Went to check it out. Turned out it was a Renagade "Hunter" with the single trigger and missing the nipple. Didn't have the crack so many of them come with! Got it for a good price. Got home and being a hoarding packrat I had a T/C nipple. To my dismay it will tighten up finger tight but the wrench won't tighten it up any more without giving. I found these over size taps and nipples at "Track of the Wolf". https://wwwrocedure..trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1046/1/TOOL-RETAP-SET-3 I've tapped holes before but was hoping to see if any one had any tips on this procedure with nipples. Wondering if I could get away with one tap instead of the set.....
     
    earlthegoat2 likes this.
  2. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Hmm...may not need to tap it. Ive heard of people using plumbers tape to tighten up the threads or to just protect them over all. Maybe that could work?
     
    TWC likes this.
  3. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Could try some copper wire on the nipple, if not may have to tap it or get a new breach plug.
     
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  4. Frulk

    Frulk Member

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    I’m unclear what the issue is. Are you able to visualize the threads? Are the threads cross threaded? Are you SURE you have the correct thread sized nipple?
     
    TWC likes this.
  5. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    There's a long time Moderator and engineer on the Muzzle Loading Forum named Zonie.
    He's a relative expert on the technical aspects involving threads and drilling & tapping nipple holes and such.
    He posted in 2019 about a similar question and said,
    "Since the major diameter of the threaded hole is only .015 smaller than a 5/16 thread, there isn't enough material to thread the existing hole for a 5/16-24 threaded nipple. That is the next larger size standard nipple thread and it is used on percussion muskets."

    And that's why when Green Mountain and TC repairs similar threading errors, they use helicoils to repair the hole and restore the original thread.
    After all, they're concerned with safety and long term reliability.
    And that was the subject of his post and the thread, about having GM install a new helicoil on an old defective factory helicoil installation.
    His post also describes how to install a new helicoil. --->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/is-this-a-helicoil.116588/

    Anyway, what I'm driving at is that no one knows how badly your threads are damaged and worn.
    While someone may get by with 1 or 2 taps to repair their problem, TOW and Zonie seem to be saying that with such a small tolerance of remaining metal available to do the job in a satisfactory way, all 3 taps should be used.
    That's because no one can tell you otherwise since they don't know.
    But they can say that to satisfy safety concerns, that you should use all 3 taps.

    If TOW will sell you all 3 taps plus 3 nipples for you to attempt your repair, and then you can return the taps and nipples that you haven't used, then that could be
    an option.
    However, if you don't do it that way, then you're going to be stuck with 3 shipping charges to keep ordering taps for a simple 2 or 3 tap job.
    And even then, you should consider yourself lucky if you don't need to install a helicoil.
    That's the best advice that I can think of to protect yourself.
    Order all 3 taps and nipples with the understanding that you can return some unopened. and/or unused.
    But short of that, I would buy them with the plan to use all 3 hoping for the best.

    Why guess that you won't need extra taps when you do need them until you can prove that you don't.
    Having a nipple blow out with 100 grains of powder is not a joke.
    The nipple is basically getting similar pressure put on it as a breech plug.
    Don't you agree that it better to be safe than sorry, and you want to avoid extra shipping charges if possible because it's all going to cost about the same in the end anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  6. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    While doubtful, it's possible that someone else already tapped your nipple hole for the larger threads, and no one knew about it.
    You can always order the new oversize nipples, and then see how large the existing hole is and which nipple looks most likely to fit before you start tapping.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
    Mike 56, TWC and ThomasT like this.
  7. TWC

    TWC Member

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    I thought of that. I want to fix it "right"and being left handed I don't want a nipple blowing out. Like another reply said that wouldn't be good.
     
  8. TWC

    TWC Member

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    I could see threads and knew the owner was not familiar with T/Cs. It was so pretty and clean I got it while I could. I was told a young lady bought it years ago and only shot it a couple times but couldn't handle the kick. It was a T/C nipple 1 in 28? thread going into a T/C. It tighten up finger tight but would not hold when tighten with nipple wrench.
     
  9. TWC

    TWC Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Ironically the last nipple that give me trouble refused to come out. I boiled it in penetrate,put as much heat as I dared. As its a War of Northern aggression shotgun I'm being super careful. May need the taps for it so I'm thinking of ordering the kit with several different size nipples. So theres a muzzle loading forum separate from this "black powder"
    spot? Sorry if I been posting the wrong stuff here pardon me.
     
  10. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    You're not posting in the wrong spot at all.
    The link that I provided was to another forum that is totally separate and has nothing to do with this forum.
    It's a whole different website that had some information that may be useful to you and others who find themselves in the same situation in the future.
    A lot of people belong to more than one forum.
     
    OrangePwrx9 and TWC like this.
  11. OrangePwrx9

    OrangePwrx9 Member

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    The muzzleloadingforum.com gets all riled up when someone posts about inline rifles, but other than that, thery're a good bunch of guys, especially Zonie.
     
  12. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    Well, there’s a place for modern stuff as well and “all riled up” isn’t exactly accurate... Zonie is one of the best and fairest moderators I’ve come across in the years I’ve spent on the interwebs... (since ‘96... lord, time flies.)
     
  13. AJumbo

    AJumbo Member

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    For what it's worth, TC Hawken and Renegade nipples are 1/4"-28 TPI. Dixie Gun Works used to sell a "repair" nipple that was slightly larger, and if you have a "bench" nipple wrench, you just lube up the repair nipple and turn it into the existing TC threads. I've never tried, nor known anyone who has, but it seems like it could work. Otherwise, you're off to the Starrett catalog to find the next, slightly larger, drill bit and tap PROVIDED you first locate an appropriately-sized nipple; this isn't a very likely fix, but DGW used to stock all kinds of oddball parts, so you never really know.

    Having looked at the TOTW set, I think this really is your best bet. I believe I'd start with the .255, and try not to go past the .260. I also like the square-shoulder nipples. They can be driven with a 1/4" square or 12-point socket. You can also get a 4-armed Sillcock key like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Armour-...11-32-in-4-Way-Sillcock-Key-RP77231/306656716. One of the arms is 1/4". and I keep one in my gear for use on musket nipples and the nipples on my Beretta shotgun.

    My BP guru always hammered into my brain that you should NEVER start a nipple with a wrench- he said that was the #1 cause of wrecked nipple seat threads. Use your fingertips until the nipple stops threading, then snug it in with the wrench.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
    TWC likes this.
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