luger bullets in a .38?

[GLOOB]

I've done some searches, and there have been at least a few brave souls doing this.

I've gotten into revolvers of late. The only problem is the bullets are a bit more spendy for what they are. I tried to like cast, but ironically I ended up loving cast bullets in luger, where they hardly save anything. And I dislike them more and more out of a revolver, where the cylinder gap leads to clouds of smoke and greasy soot. I am considering bringing a wet towel to the range to wipe my hands off while shooting.

I figure I could shoot 124 grain plated luger bullets out of a .357, as long as I stick to 12-1300 fps or less. I guess I'd flare the cases with a luger die, if it will unscrew that far, as well as use a luger taper crimp.

So if anyone else has tried this, especially with Berry's bullets, how did it work out for you? How did you do the flare and crimp? 9mm taper crimp or .357 roll crimp?

 

[Steve Koski]

The problem with using 9mm bullets in the Special/Magnum is usually getting enough case tension to hold the bullet. They'll shoot alright, if the case can grip them well enough.

 

[918v]

So don't use the expander die included in your die set, just bell the case mouth with a Lee Universal expander.

 

[GLOOB]

Well, I figured using a luger expander would alleviate that issue to some extent, seeing as I don't have a universal expander.

I'll give it a shot next weekend. That is, if I can make some time to shoot.

 

[918v]

Crimp over the shoulder as there is no cannelure.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You usually need a jacketed bullet of .357" to make accurate ammo while a 9mm bullet is usually .355" instead. Also, there is no canalure on a 9mm bullet which I feel is necessary in a revolver bullet. I guess you could always use a taper crimp with 9mm bullets.

 

[918v]

They will pull out at 1300 FPS if you taper crimp.

 

[ljnowell]

They will pull out at 1300 FPS if you taper crimp.

I believe you are dead right 918v. I think that at 1300 you are asking for trouble with an undersize bullet without a cannelure. I dont think I would really want to push that more than 1000-1100(at max) with a taper crimp.

 

[GLOOB]

What if you "neck-sized" the case with a luger die? I might have to try that for the novelty. Sounds like pure genius, if I say so, myself. I see a picture thread coming.

 

[918v]

U still need to roll crimp over the shoulder or they will pull out.

 

[snuffy]

Don't bother, it won't shoot worth a hill of beans.

1. If you can somehow hold onto the bullet long enough for the powder to get up to pressure, AND to keep the remaining 5 bullets in the case, they will fire.

2. Now how do you deal with the bore sealing? The undersized bullets will allow gases to blow by the bullets.

3. Now how does that undersized bullet grip the rifling?

Because you're using soft plated bullets, you MAY get them to slug up enough to meet the first two conditions thereby meeting the last condition. If I were to try it, I would pick the fastest burn rate powder you have to get the pressure up quickly to obturate the bullet in the cylinder.

I tried what you proposed back 30 or so years ago, but I used 9mm jacketed bullets out of a blackhawk .357. About half the bullets missed the target at 50 feet!! Don't remember the load, but do remember it didn't work!

 

[Jim Watson]

Ed Harris got it to work at the cost of a custom sizing die - a regular .38 die and 9mm or no expander would not hold - and a good deal of load adjustment.

Why not just buy some .357" bullets meant for the revolver?

I don't care for plated bullets, preferring moly coated lead for less cost than jacketed and less smoke than wax lubed cast.

One time at the IDPA Nationals there was a BUG side match with S&W M640s and factory ammo with plated bullets furnished. With only two guns for 200+ shooters, the guns got hot and foul and by the time my turn came, were peppering the target with shards of plating and particles of lead.

 

[918v]

But his 357 die followed by a 9mm die idea should work. No need for custom when you have both dies around.

I like it when people try new and unique things... like the time I loaded a 32gr JPB on top of 11grs of 231. 2400 fps out of a 4" 357 is fun!

 

[Steve Koski]

Isn't light speed 2500 fps? You could've caused the universe to implode.

 

[amlevin]

It's only fair. Lots of .357 bullets shot through 9mm's.

Paper patching anyone?

 

[amlevin]

Isn't light speed 2500 fps? You could've caused the universe to implode.

Not if you shoot towards the West. Then you can cause it to be "Yesterday".

 

[Steve C]

9mm bullets at .355 or .356 are undersized and shoot lousy out of a .38 or .357 mag. Mostly a huge waste of bullets and powder in my experience having tried it. Would likely work better in a convertible like a Ruger BH with a tighter bore.

 

[918v]

Ruger BH had a tighter bore? Are you sure about that?

 

[Steve Koski]

Everyone knows the BH's have tighter bores than the SRH's. Well, everyone but you.

 

[918v]

Could it be e everyone is wrong?

 

[ants]

9mm bullets in 38 Special

I do it all the time. It's not a matter of "You can't do it."
It's a matter of lowering your expectations way down low.

Using 38 special loads (well below 1300fps) I have no bullet pull out issues.
If you're going to shoot 1300fps in a 357 Mag, the use of 9mm bullets is kinda poor decision, isn't it?
Like getting a race car for the Indy 500 but using old VW Bug tires.
If you're going to max out a 357 you gotta use the right bullet.
If you use 9mm bullets, lower your expectations and just shoot for fun.

I use a roll crimp straight into the side of the bullet using a Redding Profile Crimp die.
(Doesn't matter how you look at it, that Profile Crimp die is excellent.)
A Lee FCD will do nearly as well.
Don't overcrimp a taper crimp, it'll just damage the copper coating.

Accuracy:
The groups do open up when shooting 9mm bullets in my revolvers.
The groups might double or triple.
But more importantly the POI changes dramatically.
It still groups, but the group may be 6" to the side and low.
Kinda hard to improve your skill with a particular revolver when the POI shifts so much.


Berry's and cost:
I don't know about you, but Berry's charges me the same price (within a dollar or two) for bullets sized 0.358" and 0.356". It only gets more expensive when you get heavier bullets. The caliber doesn't matter.

So if you're going to buy Berry's, why not just buy the right bullet?

 

[Steve Koski]

Hmmmmm. Good question.

 

[Jim Watson]

But his 357 die followed by a 9mm die idea should work. No need for custom when you have both dies around.

Why should it work?
Before crimp a .38 Special case mouth is .379", a 9mm P case mouth is .380". The bullet is smaller but the brass is thicker so the 9mm die will not reduce the .38 case mouth any smaller. You might could play that trick with a .380 die if you did not mind the extra step and the extra work hardening of your brass just to be able to use the wrong bullet.

 

[eldon519]

Just out of curiosity (and maybe I missed this), but why do you want to use the 9mm plated bullets in the .38/.357? Berry's makes bullets for both at roughly the same price, as does Rainier. Why not just use the properly-sized plated bullets?

 

[Steve Koski]

It's a money saving venture. Bound to result in early retirement.