LWRC IAR on FutureWeapons

[50 Shooter]

That's one of the things that made me lose all respect for Mac, they showed him in a squad formation carrying the SAW with the belt wrapped around his arm. All I could think of was "what a tool"! Total show for dolts that believe that's the way it's done in real life.

My second thought was why wasn't he using the 200 round box of ammo that usually comes with the SAW. Then as I watched the rest of Infoweapons I got the point he was making, "how can I help LWRC sell more stuff".

I think I've had enough of Infoweapons and the uber tactical bald whispering salesman.

 

[TimboKhan]

As a machinegunner, I can assure you that crap isn't being dragged into the action. Loose belts are a major no-no. Belts have the added advantage of being able to clean out in less time than it took to write this sentence. Sand falls through, mud can be quickly wiped off. Try getting sand or mud into a drum, and you know what you end up with? A drum full of ammo you can't shoot. If you end up with a runaway gun with a belt, you snap the belt at the closest link and thats that. You have a drum, you likely won't be able to pull it out while the gun is firing, making for a particularly dangerous (and possibly harmful to the gun) situation. I would add that you can carry one heck of a lot of ammo thats belted in boxes in an ALICE pack. I know that one from my days as assistant gunner. It's heavy, but relatively compact. Drums would not be as compact regardless how or what you made them of. I also fail to see any advantage with being able to reload a drum in the field. You really think you're going to want to sit around and jam 500 or 1000 rounds into drums? Bleh. That ammo can get reloaded mechanically and extremely quickly at it's source and moved to units in the field far more efficiently than sending an equal amount of loose ammo to machinegunners and expecting them to feed it round by round into drums.

Look man, I was a machinegunner for 4 years. I have fired literally hundreds of thousands of rounds in training and in combat, and from that experience I can tell you that I would definitively not want a drum under any circumstance.

 

[PercyShelley]

IIRC the IAR was made in response to a USMC solicitation, so it's not like they came up with the idea out of thin air.

Is there some huge, glaring flaw in the M249? The US Army is apparently funding development of a plastic cased or caseless AAI LSAT weapon, and HK has their relatively new MG4, which even looks like the minmi! Seems like a lot of people think they can do better.

 

[TimboKhan]

The M249 has never been a particularly well received weapon. I am no defense contractor, but my experience with it was that it was always a bit too tempramental in the field and not particularly forgiving to riflemen not trained properly on how to work a MG trigger. I always thought it seemed a little delicate in general. Thats just my experience with it, so that is obviously just my opinion. I personally have never thought it was accurately named: The "Squad Automatic Weapon", in my mind, should be able to be used by every member of the infantry squad if need be. To go back to the BAR, it wasn't a particularly complex weapon, but it was easily fired from the shoulder and had the ability to be deployed in every situation that the squad might find itself in. For example, the SAW seems like it would be a nightmare to use in MOUT conditions. I wasn't a rifleman, so maybe it's the best thing since sliced bread, but if I was in a fireteam tasked with clearing a house or something, the SAW would be pretty low on the list of weapons I would want to do it with. The SAW is also totally unsuitable for single shots, which is a hinderance. By comparison, the M60 could be fired single shot and from the shoulder. It wasn't really meant to do such, but it was possible and the gun didn't seem to suffer from an reliability issues because of it. SAW's, on the other hand, seemed to jam pretty religiously if you didn't get at least an 8 or 9 round burst out.

As far as caseless ammo goes, I will believe it when it is issued en masse and not a moment sooner. I am 36 now and I did my senior thesis in high school on weapons the military was looking at to replace the M-16. Thats been 18 years ago, and H&K was working on caseless ammo then! I am no expert on why it doesn't work or hasn't caught on, although I would assume the common issues are it being super dirty and not robust enough to withstand field conditions (water in particular.) I don't know the first thing about plastic-cased ammo, although it seems like a decent concept from the standpoint of cost and ease of manufacture. It is like a shotgun shell where the body is plastic but the rim is brass?

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Is there some huge, glaring flaw in the M249?

Most notably, it's a 17 pound poodle shooter. Other than that, it is not without flaws, but is a decent weapon.

I just always thought you should be able to get a poodle shooter into a platform of 12 pounds or less with an interchangeable barrel system. Something like the Ultimax I linked to, or the SAW version of the Stoner the SEALs used in Vietnam, would be a better choice, IMO.

 

[PercyShelley]

It is like a shotgun shell where the body is plastic but the rim is brass?

Pretty much, except that the plastic is actually pressure-bearing.

There's a video out there somewhere on the web of one of the protos firing, not sure if it's the plastic cased or caseless variant. The thing works, at least in controlled lab conditions.

 

[KTALGSTO]

go jeff white!

 

[skeet king]

I said the same thing

 

[SHvar]

A gas piston bolt does stay cool, it does not get hot like direct impingement does. Fire a few hundred rounds with DI and dont grab that bolt, you will regret it without thick insulated gloves. Gas piston relieves the heat and much increases durability of the bolt, reciever, and barrel from not allowing heat or carbon fouling to be a problem.
The SAW is reliable, its tough, and the barrel puts up with endless heat without problems, only the thing is a bit bulky, heavy and rusts easy (I guess the coating is not near as good as it should be). A worn mag will not feed correctly in many SAWs. Im glad I only fired it several times, I was a grenadier (M203).

 

[P.B.Walsh]

SHvah, thank you for serving.

 

[C-grunt]

I was a SAW gunner for the invasion in 03. It can be a temperamental weapon for sure. I whole heartedly agree that its 7 shot burst minimum.

I always like the M240 better and found it to be more reliable. I think because it is a simpler design. I really think a smaller version of the M240 in 5.56 would make a great reliable SAW.

Now that being said. If you knew your SAW they ran well. In one training session in Kuwait in 03, I shot 600 rounds through my SAW as fast as I could reload it and it ran the whole time.

During the war the only time I had a problem was the day of the big red sand storm. After the storm was a big rain storm. We were sleeping on the side of a road that was elevated above the surrounding terrain. During the night the section that my squad was sleeping on kinda collapsed and we were stuck in a mini mud slide. I was over half buried in mud and had to dig myself out. My SAW was in my sleeping bag so it didnt get horribly dirty. The next morning we all function test fired our weapons and my SAW had a few hiccups. All I had to do was give it a good wipe down and clean the bolt and it was good as new.