Lying about Groups
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oldfool
Member
hey, hey now
I shot a one ragged hole 6 shot <1" group standing off hand w/ 357 revolver, 15 yards, no sandbags, really, no kidding...
ONCE
(in my entire life)
it was... 27 years ago, uhhh, mebbe 30 years ago,,, uhhh, something like that
but seriously now, I much prefer shooting dirt to shooting paper
shooting dirt, I hardly ever miss (well every once in a while, but cheap ammo these days, you gotta' expect a flyer every now and then)
I shot a one ragged hole 6 shot <1" group standing off hand w/ 357 revolver, 15 yards, no sandbags, really, no kidding...
ONCE
(in my entire life)
it was... 27 years ago, uhhh, mebbe 30 years ago,,, uhhh, something like that
but seriously now, I much prefer shooting dirt to shooting paper
shooting dirt, I hardly ever miss (well every once in a while, but cheap ammo these days, you gotta' expect a flyer every now and then)
pockets
Member
No reason to lie about anything. I feel no overwhelming need to attempt impressing anyone here. That doesn't matter at all to me.
Popeye said it best, "I yam what I yam."
Popeye said it best, "I yam what I yam."
cambeul41
Member
Lying about group size?
I thought this was going to be about organization size, like the Brady Campaign claiming 500,000 members.
I thought this was going to be about organization size, like the Brady Campaign claiming 500,000 members.
+1.I don't lie about my groups because I don't talk about them, and the reason why I don't talk about them is 'cause I suck.
ForumSurfer
Member
What he said!
sourdough44
Member
All I will say is the average guy next to me at the range is no where near as good a shot as the average net poster.
redneck2
Member
I think a lot depends on your perspective. I suspect a lot (if not most here) are more used to shooting a 60 year old milsurp than something suoer accurate. There are benchrest guys that swap out barrels when they open up to the .3's or less.
Also, most shooters go to the local shop and buy the cheapest ammo they can find, set up some tin cans, and blast away. As for sand bags and rests....you typically don't see guys at benchrest shoots standing up. Don't shoot off your hind legs in a windstorm, then say it's impossible to shoot 1" groups.
Also, most shooters go to the local shop and buy the cheapest ammo they can find, set up some tin cans, and blast away. As for sand bags and rests....you typically don't see guys at benchrest shoots standing up. Don't shoot off your hind legs in a windstorm, then say it's impossible to shoot 1" groups.
If America is ever invaded by a foreign power, someone will have to quickly invent a motorized bench rest with a Caldwell Lead Sled bolted to the top. It will come with its own chronograph and reloading bench to make minor adjustments to the ammo along the way. We will have to rush these contraptions into production or we will be doomed to defeat. 
ny32182
Member
I have little doubt that plenty of "internet rounding" is applied to a lot of posted groups... (I think we had a guy in the rifle section shooting 2" at 200 yards with an "AK and regular ball ammo" over the weekend. That one gave me a chuckle, as do some others) But even for people who aren't necessarily completely making something up, omitting information via only posting the one best 3 shot group of the day, as plenty of people readily admit they do, is still misleading. One three shot group means nothing. I've been at the range and happened to have three or four consecutive shots land into an an area the size of a dime or less. Yeah, sure it was fun while it lasted and I'm sure there are plenty of people who would have stopped right there and posted that group on the internet saying their milspec AR shoots 1/4" groups when "I do my part"!!! When it becomes a 3" group after the 5th shot, well... what is a better description of the average dispersion, 1/4" or 3"?
For me personally, when I have a load that I think I like, I shoot 10 to 20 into a group, before, to me, it "shoots x.x" with this ammo, bench setup, conditions, etc".
For me personally, when I have a load that I think I like, I shoot 10 to 20 into a group, before, to me, it "shoots x.x" with this ammo, bench setup, conditions, etc".
I round up and never use a ruler.
I also play golf regularly and the same mentality exists with many golfers as with shooters. They'll take a mulligan, improve their ball position, not count penalty strokes, etc. Yet, they'll tell you with a straight face that they shot a fantastic score. And, let us not forget that it's a gentleman's game!
I also play golf regularly and the same mentality exists with many golfers as with shooters. They'll take a mulligan, improve their ball position, not count penalty strokes, etc. Yet, they'll tell you with a straight face that they shot a fantastic score. And, let us not forget that it's a gentleman's game!
bellyup039
Member
Have I said, " I have shot a phonebook at 100 yds with my reloads out of my 357 4" barrell" Yes.
did i lye.
No.
8" high at 100 yds. I can do it. consistantly.
Sound like bs.. Come to the range with me.
did i lye.
No.
8" high at 100 yds. I can do it. consistantly.
Sound like bs.. Come to the range with me.
ny32182
Member
Hitting an 8"x11" target at 100 yards with a high velocity handgun is not hard to believe. You've got a long way to go before you get your internet marksman badge!
BADUNAME37
Member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,434
Am I a great shot?
Absolutely NOT.
Did I happen to glass bed my rifle the right way, have the gunsmith adjust my trigger to a nice clean break at about 3# and did I happen to find just the right bullet/powder/primer/seating depth combination for that particular rifle?
Absolutely!
YMMV!
Absolutely NOT.
Did I happen to glass bed my rifle the right way, have the gunsmith adjust my trigger to a nice clean break at about 3# and did I happen to find just the right bullet/powder/primer/seating depth combination for that particular rifle?
Absolutely!
YMMV!
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Rabbitcreekok
Member
Groups? Five rounds in one hole, is that a group? How far across the one hole?
Just Kidding. I don't lie about my groups because I don't talk about my groups. I actually have never been concerned about groups. I guess it is my LEO background. We always shot to hit the bad guy COM and if we did that, it was all OK.
I like to keep them close together, but I can truthfully say I have never measured a group or even estimated the spacing on a group.
Just Kidding. I don't lie about my groups because I don't talk about my groups. I actually have never been concerned about groups. I guess it is my LEO background. We always shot to hit the bad guy COM and if we did that, it was all OK.
I like to keep them close together, but I can truthfully say I have never measured a group or even estimated the spacing on a group.
Nushif
Member
I don't have to lie about my groups ... Because I only aim for COM and call it good from there. I figure if I can hit a human sized target at reasonable distances like say ... 30 meters ... I'll be fine. I can do it on two guns so far!
qajaq59
Member
That'd be kind of pointless since the guys I'd normally talk to about groups are the guys I shoot with. LOL
jnyork
Member
Just yesterday I shot a one-hole group at 100 yards offhand. Second shot screwed it all up!
wally
Member
IMHO, most of the "lies" are considering 3 or 5 shots to make a "group" or from culling out "flyers".
You need 10 shots to get statistical significance worth talking about.
Basically I don't really care much about group size other than off sandbags it tells me what size targets I need to shoot at any given range to be sure the misses are me, not the ammo. Other than setting this "baseline" and adjusting POA/POI for any given lot of ammo, I prefer to shoot standing, sitting, or prone depending on the range and adjust the targets to be ~3X the sandbag group sizes at that range. I prefer hit/miss scoring with reactive targets too.
You need 10 shots to get statistical significance worth talking about.
Basically I don't really care much about group size other than off sandbags it tells me what size targets I need to shoot at any given range to be sure the misses are me, not the ammo. Other than setting this "baseline" and adjusting POA/POI for any given lot of ammo, I prefer to shoot standing, sitting, or prone depending on the range and adjust the targets to be ~3X the sandbag group sizes at that range. I prefer hit/miss scoring with reactive targets too.
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CoRoMo
Member
I hate lies, but I like shooting good groups.
I'm impressed with the groups I shoot, but if they aren't impressive to anyone else, I don't really care.
I'm impressed with the groups I shoot, but if they aren't impressive to anyone else, I don't really care.
If you want full disclosure, while I've been capable of shooting fairly tight groups since the moment I first picked up a gun--honestly, I'm a natural at it in some ways, and so is my sister who doesn't particularly like guns--I still don't do anywhere near as well in rapid fire. Currently with regard to the latter, I can routinely put every single round in the black on a bad guy silhouette target at 7 yards, including head shots when doing Mozambique drills, but my groups aren't any tighter than that. Slowing down tightens my groups, but if I can still hit the target every time (when standing still, anyway), then in an actual defensive situation, I'll be shooting fast. In the meantime, I still have to work at pretty much every aspect of shooting at the range in order to get better. I may talk like I have it all down sometimes, but that's just how I write, and I consider myself a beginner (my relative lack of experience kind of mandates it ). But no, I wouldn't lie or exaggerate, and I haven't (at least deliberately). If I suggest that somebody needs to work on this or that, for example, it doesn't mean that I'm so great, either, it's just a matter of helping direct one's focus in training (as well as testing my own understanding among those who may have more experience).
). But no, I wouldn't lie or exaggerate, and I haven't (at least deliberately). If I suggest that somebody needs to work on this or that, for example, it doesn't mean that I'm so great, either, it's just a matter of helping direct one's focus in training (as well as testing my own understanding among those who may have more experience).NoAlibi
Member
metalman8600 - Re: Because you can use them again?
I think MNGonzo was paraphrasing an old pilot's joke:
What's the difference between a good landing and a great landing?
A good landingis one that you can walk away from.
A great landingis one that you can use the airplane again!
I think MNGonzo was paraphrasing an old pilot's joke:
What's the difference between a good landing and a great landing?
A good landingis one that you can walk away from.
A great landingis one that you can use the airplane again!
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