Lying to LE

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

ArtP, it really seems like you're looking for someone to tell you that it is ok to lie.

 

[ArtP]

ArtP, it really seems like you're looking for someone to tell you that it is ok to lie.

My morals can be questioned with a PM.

 

[we are not amused]

Interesting discussion. But how real is it?

I agree, don't lie to cops, even though they will lie with malice afore thought to you. (I have had it happen).

Never ever give them permission to search your vehicle. (you'll be sorrry!)

But what happens if you refuse to answer their questions?

What happens if you refuse to let them search your vehicle at an inspection point.

Somehow, I think it won't go down well for you.

What if they specifically ask if you have a weapon, and you refuse to answer?

 

[lemaymiami]

As a retired cop, I've always thought that lying to the Po-lice was a national sport.... since almost everyone you deal with (good guys, bad guys, saints or sinners) does that sort of stuff in law enforcement encounters... and you learn to expect it, work around it, and if possible use it to your advantage (speaking from a street cop's point of view...).

In my state, Florida, there is no such charge as "lying to the police" although many a guy has gone to jail believing that was the first charge they'd be reading on the A-form... In short, lying to an officer is a bad idea since it can easily be the first step in a chain of evidence that will end up in an arrest of some sort. At a minimum every individual is required to provide the basics, name, DOB, address or risk the additional investigation (ordinary reasonable folks are willing to identify themselves, if asked to do so in an encounter with officers - if you fail to do so you invite additional inquiries that might not go the way you would like....). No you don't have to carry I.D. (although once again, that invites addtional scrutiny for better or worse). What I'd counsel anyone to do is not to lie, if at all possible - but that doesn't mean you have to tell them everything you know (most attorneys would be very insistent on you not doing much more than identifying yourself and giving a minimal explanation for whatever activity the officer found as he/she approached).... It's a funny situation when a reasonable explanation may resolve any suspicion on an officer's part but the failure to provide a reasonable explanation may arouse suspicion -- but that's life.....

On the other hand you don't want to be lying to any federal enforcement type - since they absolutely do have a "false statements" charge.... As a guy who's been the subject of at least one civil rights investigation (at one time any killing by a cop almost guaranteed a civil rights investigation.... isn't police work fun?) I'd be very reluctant to have anything to say at all to someone with a federal badge since anything other than name, rank, serial number, etc. is not likely to be very helpful (but that's striclty my opinion - and I'm pretty cynical about the feds...). By the way - I was never notified about that civil rights investigation at all... until it was suspended. They then sent me a nice letter saying so, and warning me that they'd be re-opening the investigation if I ever engaged in similar conduct in the future..... In other words, another justified shooting meant more trouble my way... isn't police work fun? That was the main reason I turned down a request to run my Department's SRT years later.... true story.

 

[we are not amused]

ArtP, it really seems like you're looking for someone to tell you that it is ok to lie.

Aren't you reading something into his post that ArtP isn't saying? Perhaps you ought to change your tag line.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Aren't you reading something into his post that ArtP isn't saying? Perhaps you ought to change your tag line.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/seems


A little light reading for ya. Words mean things.


ArtP, application of the law is not done by a computer. It's done by humans with imperfections and discretion. There are a number of laws that could be used against you if you lie. How much evidence there is to support the charges or whether the prosecutor even feels like pressing the case are all going to be based on the specific situation.

There is no "IF {subject ArtP lies} THEN {prosecute for crime _____} ELSE {do not prosecute}" equation here. Many posters have told you this in different ways.

If you're looking for something solid to hang your hat on, you've already received a few good answers from others. Lying will probably make the situation worse for you. You would be better off not answering the questions at all. And you would be even better off not performing any actions in the first place you feel you might have to lie about. Anything beyond that is going to be situation specific. Who the officers are, what exactly you said, what exactly you did, what the prosecutor feels like doing about it are all big factors.

If you're looking for a response to either say "Yes, lying to LE is always a crime and will always get you in trouble" or "No, you can lie all you want to LE and there will be no consequences", you're going to be waiting a long time. Neither of those answers are realistic. The truth about what would actually happen to you if you lied has a lot more to do with the situation at the time, and a lot less to do with what some book of laws might actually say.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I see no need to lie to the police. It's much easier, and less questionable to simply refuse to answer a question you don't want to answer. Or, answer their question with a question of your own, such as: "Am I free to go?" or "Are you detaining me?"

 

[centurion94]

Hopefully, there are large numbers of people reading some of these comments and simply rolling their eyes and choosing not to respond. I, however, chose otherwise.

http://start.mobilebeat.com/showthread.php?19775-Police-Harrassment...(humor)...

Happy New Year!

don

 

[PowerG]

In many states game wardens have extra powers to conduct inspections if he believes that the person has been engaged in hunting, fishing, or trapping. There is no need for reasonable suspicion or probable cause, just the belief that the subject of the inspection has been involved with those activities.

If a LEO is gathering information in the process of investigating a crime then lying to them could bring a "making a false statement" charge (in most states). The police often ask questions that they already know the answers to, just to see if you're being truthful.

 

[henschman]

I lie to them if they ask me if I have a firearm in my vehicle. I used to say "yes" if I did, but I found out that they then search you and seize the guns without your consent, write down your serial numbers, and radio them back to dispatch. No thanks, I think I'll pass on the violation of my rights and just tell them "no" if they ask that question.

In that situation it is unlikely that the cop will ever find out that I actually do have a gun... I will refuse consent for a search, so unless they make up some BS probable cause for a search or bring out a drug dog that takes cues or something, they won't know I'm lying. And even if they do get a search and find a gun, they might be pissed and give me as big of a ticket as they can for whatever they pulled me over for, but that's the worst they could legally do.

I have never been pulled over at a checkpoint before, but if I ever do, I will give them a piece of my mind and tell them exactly what I think of a policy of suspicionless searches. Supreme Court be damned, that is straight out of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Don't ever lie.

Just don't answer the question.

Leo asks if you have guns?
Answer, why would anyone need a gun?

So far it's always worked for me

AFS

 

[Coltdriver]

I think it is important to understand that if a LEO is asking you questions it is normally for the sole purpose of having you incriminate yourself so that he can arrest you.

So my advice is, and especially if you have something to hide, keep you mouth shut. That is, say nothing at all. Be polite, be respectful, but keep you mouth shut.

You have already seen news reports where the person being questioned was not guilty of anything except lying to the law enforcement person. You can't lie if you don't talk.

 

[Robert]

can find a reason beyond lying. But is it a crime in itself?

Ok for the third or fourth time, lying to a sworn law enforcement officer, about anything, is a crime in just about every city, county or state. I am not sure what was unclear about that. I did not mean to trail off into Forest Service and DOW law but when I read the OP that was the sense I got. So again lying to a law enforcement office is a crime. Now for the exact wording you will have to consult your local and state laws.

sole purpose of having you incriminate yourself so that he can arrest you.

HAHAHAHAHAH no.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I think it is important to understand that if a LEO is asking you questions it is normally for the sole purpose of having you incriminate yourself so that he can arrest you.

Only if they really do think you're committing a crime. Believe it or not, cops don't get bonuses for making arrests. Filling out paperwork is not fun. Taking statements is not fun. Going to court and digging through old arrest reports is not fun. Actually arresting people is not fun. It sucks. It's work. It's a hassle.

It's a hassle that cops do because it's their job. So they do it when there are crimes that someone should get arrested for. But cops as a rule do not look for ways to trick innocent people into creating more work for themselves. There are more than enough actual criminals out there to keep any cop busy every shift of his life.

The questions are meant to see if you are a criminal, and yes, if they think you are, it's to get you to incriminate yourself. But they key point is the "to see if you are a criminal" first. If they can determine you're not, nearly all cops are more than happy to get you on their way so they can get back to their warm cars, hopefully with a minimum of paperwork for the night.

What do most people do at their jobs? Try to get it done with the least amount of work and hassle so they can go home and not be at work anymore. Once you realize being a cop is a job, it starts to make more sense.

 

[rbernie]

Not really gun-specific, and the OP has been answered:

Ok for the third or fourth time, lying to a sworn law enforcement officer, about anything, is a crime in just about every city, county or state. I am not sure what was unclear about that.

Closed.