Because YOU can't imagine something is no reason to assume others can't. THAT sort of thinking lies disturbingly close to the same rational used about other weapons.
Lynn Thompson's new company "Never Unarmed"
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Because YOU can't imagine something is no reason to assume others can't. THAT sort of thinking lies disturbingly close to the same rational used about other weapons.
I own lots of things that will never be put to any practical use. So do a lot of people in the U.S.
If it comes down to it, even a lot of the things we have that could be put to practical use aren't really things we need. I sure hope no one ever goes through my gun safe asking me what I need each one of them for and what each one does that means I need it even though I have all the others. That would be awkward!
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Solomonson
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I believe you meant "antipathy."
TTv2
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No, I meant apathy. I don't think there's a deep seated hatred or dislike for Lynn, but there is certainly a large number of people who really don't care about him or his company and the products they make. Like, they won't go out of their way to recommend or praise the knives CS has made over the years, but they won't call them junk either.
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They were examples of the non-knife weapons CS makes, I wasn't saying that those are the non-knife things in demand, but they may be, IDK how many of them CS has been selling. I'd imagine the polymer baseball bats and the machetes are much more popular, but if someone feels they would be better served with a mace than a billy club or a halberd instead of a baseball bat I'm not one dismiss them as useless weapons.
Years ago I bought one of the spears with the long shaft for $30 I think. It was before I got into reloading and the ammo shortage of post Sandy Hook was still in my mind and I had concerns that if a time came that I had no ammo what would work for self defense? I figured that distance was best and that a 6 foot spear was a lot better than a knife or a sword.
I guess some people could say that's ridiculous or that I should have stored more ammo and I'm sure there are plenty of people kicking themselves for not buying more Walmart ammo in 2019, but for $30 it's insurance for a really, really bad day and it doesn't require a lot of training or skill to be useful for self defense.
I can give a few tips to use a spear effectively, FWIW (does require a smooth, but not polyurethane smooth finish)...
I think CS as a company contracted to make copies of a lot of knives without paying anything to the designers. I think, in an industry full of amazing people, that LT is abrasive and not especially likeable. At the same time, I appreciate that Special Projects made a lot of cool items, frequently at extremely reasonable prices.
I think CS as a company contracted to make copies of a lot of knives without paying anything to the designers. I think, in an industry full of amazing people, that LT is abrasive and not especially likeable. At the same time, I appreciate that Special Projects made a lot of cool items, frequently at extremely reasonable prices.
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Sure, I'd be down to hear tips and tactics on spears. Should make for an interesting topic.
Hate to keep bringing up Lynn, but what videos I've seen of him, mostly on Cold Steel's youtube channel (which is great btw) Lynn comes off as confident in his knowledge and I have no reason to believe what he thinks isn't formed from his experiences. I saw a video he made couple years ago about XL knives and what their purposes are and the points he made I don't disagree with them, but I'm never gonna start advocating to others they should only ever carry a folding knife with a 6 inch blade.
That's probably not even legal in half the country, but law is practically irrelevant in today's America.
I can actually appreciate Lynn for being brash because at least he's being genuine, which in a corporate world based on sales is hard to find.
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Solomonson
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This sure reads close to:
"Assault weapons and plastic pistols? Sorry but why?
Are these for hunting? If so, replicas can be made or bough cheaply. And I can’t imagine what anyone would be using an AR15 or plastic pistol for that wasn't illegal/immoral."
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Solomonson
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I never found LCT to be "abrasive" in person. Perhaps he was though, that time you met him over 20 years ago?
Nice.
I found all the CS employees to be arrogant and dismissive, in an enormous conference room full of warm, friendly experts and quite a few master craftsmen. But, hey, I understand the pride copying other folks' designs and contracting them out for 3rd parties to make is likely to engender.
The knife world is large, fanboy who you like. I've spent most of my adult life as a knife enthusiast, and there are just too many incredible folks in the industry to waste time on the dipwads.
I found all the CS employees to be arrogant and dismissive, in an enormous conference room full of warm, friendly experts and quite a few master craftsmen. But, hey, I understand the pride copying other folks' designs and contracting them out for 3rd parties to make is likely to engender.
The knife world is large, fanboy who you like. I've spent most of my adult life as a knife enthusiast, and there are just too many incredible folks in the industry to waste time on the dipwads.
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Solomonson
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You can continue to attack LCT (and now his former staff) based on a single experience you had, 20+ years ago. You can even be rude by labeling me a "fanboy" -- apparently you have that prerogative as a site administrator. Not a darned thing I can do about it, except continue to shake my head.Nice.
I found all the CS employees to be arrogant and dismissive, in an enormous conference room full of warm, friendly experts and quite a few master craftsmen. But, hey, I understand the pride copying other folks' designs and contracting them out for 3rd parties to make is likely to engender.
The knife world is large, fanboy who you like. I've spent most of my adult life as a knife enthusiast, and there are just too many incredible folks in the industry to waste time on the dipwads.
When the sale of CS was announced the attacks on LCT, CS and GSM were largely unfounded. What some refuse to acknowledge, despite being obvious, is their comments said a lot more about them, than LCT/CS/GSM.
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You can count me in as a CS fan and one of those who was and still am concerned about quality control taking a nose dive because I've seen enough of what happens when a small company sells out to the big conglomerates and the cool stuff we loved the original company for get dropped and the employees who work there suddenly find their workplace totally different from the previous years they'd been there and lose their quality touch, so to speak.You can continue to attack LCT (and now his former staff) based on a single experience you had, 20+ years ago. You can even be rude by labeling me a "fanboy" -- apparently you have that prerogative as a site administrator. Not a darned thing I can do about it, except continue to shake my head.
When the sale of CS was announced the attacks on LCT, CS and GSM were largely unfounded. What some refuse to acknowledge, despite being obvious, is their comments said a lot more about them, than LCT/CS/GSM.
It wasn't a buyout situation, but it happened to me a year and 3 managers into a new job and the last one's big change to make it look like he was doing something was to put hazard tape on the floor where people would walk so they'd know when they need to put on the safety glasses. Oh, and when working we could only drink water, no coffee, tea, soda, whatever and the cup/bottle had to be labeled WATER. I figured being on the night shift it didn't apply after 5 PM, but my department's super was an ass who enforced whatever the manager said, but the next department a 15 second walk away the super there didn't care and would drink coffee.
The final straw where my quality and output really took a drop was when they closed the inspection lab and forced us to use the complete piece of crap optical comparetor on the floor with the fuzzy picture and horrible lighting and super loose table. Took me a lot longer to use that thing and often times I wasn't sure if it was right or not.
Wasn't too surprised to hear after I and three other guys on nights had split that that manager got fired.
So, my point of this is that there are reasons that things change within companies when big changes are made, especially when there's a buyout. It has a trickle down effect and eventually people who were thinking of staying another 5 or 10 years before retiring decide to leave or someone who's been there 30 years and new management wants to cut the 75k/year salary he's paid to bring in their 23 year old nephew to do the same job for 40k and is in over his head.
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Solomonson
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Oh? I hope you weren't knee-jerking in response to the sale? Rather than verbally wring your hands with concern, did you bother to look into GMSO as a company? Did you take a look at their track record and make comments based on actual knowledge of the company?
And?
Were you trying to inspect product quality into what you were producing? I've spent a long time in design engineering, manufacturing engineering, production management, materials management, finance and now company management. If an in-line inspection was actually necessary, it makes sense to bring the equipment to the shop floor if at all possible, where it's actually being used, and not in some metrology room somewhere. Did you ever take a moment to walk your direct boss through the process of using the comparitor on the shop floor vs. in the lab? Did you point out the poor lighting? What did they say? Sounds like an equipment function issue, and not a matter of where it's located.
More negativity. Better to actually research GMSO's actual track record. The information is available.
You can continue to attack LCT (and now his former staff) based on a single experience you had, 20+ years ago. You can even be rude by labeling me a "fanboy" -- apparently you have that prerogative as a site administrator. Not a darned thing I can do about it, except continue to shake my head...
What some refuse to acknowledge, despite being obvious, is their comments said a lot more about them, than LCT/CS/GSM.
I have given no attack. I have made it clear the knife world is full of friendly, helpful, humble people, and LT is not those things, and has frequently profited off the intellectual property of others. If pure statements of fact constitute "attacks" in your world view, some deep introspection might be in order.
I tend to be a Spyderco fanboy (so obviously I don't consider it an inherent insult), though I am quick to point out where I disagree with design choices. If you need to be insulted, you have my leave, but that's on you. I bet your head hurts from all the shaking, poor guy.
I have of course seen LCT since then, but have never considered it worth my time to try engaging him again. (I also don't consider Minecraft or a billion other things worth my time, if you also need to feel insult on all those things' behalf.)
I will confess to not being heartbroken if an honest, fair (based on personal interaction, then observation for 24 years) evaluation gives someone gripe. As I said, despite contracting out other people's designs, usually with no compensation to the original designers, "I appreciate that Special Projects made a lot of cool items, frequently at extremely reasonable prices.". It's also true that Demko has done some good work.
<-------- (See how fair that was? I didn't even mention CS's practice of calling their steels proprietary names, so they could change the composition whenever they wanted.)
Cheers,
John
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So I was curious about GSM Outdoors and I looked a bit. GSM Outdoors is a privately funded company, so all financial data is not public. Other than talking to current or ex employees, how can anyone check how their acquisitions have been managed?
In my career I worked in high tech and I saw many acquisitions from both sides, and I don’t think its wrong to say that many acquisitions do fail. Other acquisitions go very well - I personally saw the Avago acquisition of Broadcom and it mostly went well from an internal employee perspective. From a investor perspective it’s been spectacular - went from ~$65 to $470 in 5-6 years...
One thing for sure is that whoever is behind GSM Outdoors either has a lot of money or a lot of debt, as they have done a lot of acquisitions in just the last 3 years...
Disclaimer: I don’t have an opinion on LCT nor do I have any CS products. i do have some CS knives on order as I want to try their plastic clips, but they are still enjoying their time in Mail (Non)Innovations.
In my career I worked in high tech and I saw many acquisitions from both sides, and I don’t think its wrong to say that many acquisitions do fail. Other acquisitions go very well - I personally saw the Avago acquisition of Broadcom and it mostly went well from an internal employee perspective. From a investor perspective it’s been spectacular - went from ~$65 to $470 in 5-6 years...
One thing for sure is that whoever is behind GSM Outdoors either has a lot of money or a lot of debt, as they have done a lot of acquisitions in just the last 3 years...
Disclaimer: I don’t have an opinion on LCT nor do I have any CS products. i do have some CS knives on order as I want to try their plastic clips, but they are still enjoying their time in Mail (Non)Innovations.
Why do we care about Lynn as a person or persona at all? He presented himself and his company in a way that he thought would help make a profit. It worked with some and not with others as part of marketing. Some of each of those groups bought his knives in part or in spite of that presentation. Ok, that's understandable.
OTOH, if folks want to confuse the marketing with the person, that's overly simple. If people want to defend or condemn him for it...meh.
If we want to discuss personal interactions with Lynn Thompson, then you need to have had personal interactions with him as I have and John has and as apparently others have had. If all your interactions were pleasant, wonderful. If all your interactions weren't, unfortunate. If it was a mix, ... (sorry, don't have the relevant descriptor at the tip of my fingers). I have directly experienced what John has. I have had good experiences with Lynn and his staff. Guess I'm in the "mix" category, John's in another, and some of you are in the third.
I will point out that I can't think of anyone with negatives to say about Spencer at SOG, Rod at CRKT, or Sal at Spyderco as to their personalities or representation of their companies. Gentlemen all as far as the industry is concerned. Chuck Buck and AG Russell were also gentlemen in their personal and business lives, may their memories be an inspiration.
OTOH, if folks want to confuse the marketing with the person, that's overly simple. If people want to defend or condemn him for it...meh.
If we want to discuss personal interactions with Lynn Thompson, then you need to have had personal interactions with him as I have and John has and as apparently others have had. If all your interactions were pleasant, wonderful. If all your interactions weren't, unfortunate. If it was a mix, ... (sorry, don't have the relevant descriptor at the tip of my fingers). I have directly experienced what John has. I have had good experiences with Lynn and his staff. Guess I'm in the "mix" category, John's in another, and some of you are in the third.
I will point out that I can't think of anyone with negatives to say about Spencer at SOG, Rod at CRKT, or Sal at Spyderco as to their personalities or representation of their companies. Gentlemen all as far as the industry is concerned. Chuck Buck and AG Russell were also gentlemen in their personal and business lives, may their memories be an inspiration.
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Honestly, I don't care about GMSO and what their track record is because it doesn't matter in regards to how Cold Steel will operate and what they will produce. Even if GMSO is some fantastic conglomerate that has had success with previous acquisitions, there's no guarantee that the same will hold true for CS.
If it does turn out to be a success, I'll be the first one to compliment them.
You make it sound like I would have been going out of my way to get to metrology, it was actually closer than the other junk comparator and it wasn't located in the other department where other guys were working and me and the others in my department were getting in their way taking up space to do the inspection. The benefit of the lab itself was we could turn off the lights and get a better view of the screen while out on the floor the lights are always on.
Yeah, I walked right up to manager when I found out about it and asked why. The issue wasn't using the equipment, it was people on the night shifts were taking gauge blocks and pins out to the floor and not returning them. So, my suggestion was if that's the issue to get a lock for the cabinet that those things were stored it, but keep the room with the equipment unlocked and available.
I was told to just deal with it.
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Solomonson
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earlthegoat2
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One of the only products CS purveyed that I have been interested in was the sjambok. Alas, I never bought one. I am interested in the blowguns too though.
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Solomonson
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CS lists it as being in stock: https://www.coldsteel.com/42-sjambok/
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Solomonson
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I would suggest that's your opinion. An opinion based on single meeting with LCT more than 20 years ago as you note.
The 7th Century BC Greek poet Hesiod hit the nail on the head with his quote "the most powerful of all human emotions is envy." The more successful someone becomes, the more they will be ostracized -- by at least some segments of society. Not because they have done something wrong, but because they become well known through their accomplishments. It all boils down to the fact we don't like people who do things that we cannot do. This is particularly true in a pluralistic society like the one most of us live in.
I'm not sure what to think when CS introduces products which have been heavily influenced by existing designs? CS doesn't clone anything as far as I can see, yet few companies seem more thoroughly cloned by others than CS itself. I certainly appreciate when they bring high quality, extremely low-priced knives like their Canadian Belt Knife or Kudu to the market. It's nice to experience such designs for $10.99 and $6.99 respectively. There's simply no way that I would spend $110 for a Grohmann or $30+ (once shipping is added in) for a (low quality) Okapi 907.
Horses for courses. It's less about personalities and more about the product. The marketing of CS always struck me as appealing to other demographics than mine. No problem. There is no denying the cost vs benefit of the Kudu, Canadian belt knife copy, or roach belly if one isn't overly concerned with materials or origin. Other, more expensive knives in the line obviously appeal to others, and that's fine. This thread was supposed to be about the new company, though. What do we know about that?
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