M&P firing pin broke; should I switch to a hammer fired pistol?

[avqpuggr]

In the middle of a competition, my M&P died. Broken firing pin.

This is unnerving because if it was the street, I'd most likely be dead.

Is there any reliability advantage to a hammer fired gun with respect to the gun being able to continue to launch rounds even if something breaks? Something like an HK P30 LEM? the M&P turned into a paperweight once the striker broke, and I'm open to switching platforms if it will buy me more reliability.

I'm not interested in "fanboy" talk. I see these things as tools and don't care what people "like." I want mechanical reliability to get me through the fight. And the gun I've been using (i.e., M&P) was useless when it broke. My M&P was never abused and well maintained. I'm interested in the mechanics of reliability.

 

[jerkface11]

How many rounds did it have thru it?

 

[avqpuggr]

@jerkface11

I get why you're asking this, but it's a red herring for what I'm asking about. To answer your question, maybe had a 1000 rounds through it. But even if it had 50,000, I want something that's going to get me through the fight.

So anyone got anything contributory to add relating to my question?

 

[jerkface11]

You don't think the round count the gun fails at matters? Then no gun is good enough. Everything will break at some point.

 

[Hangingrock]

Not meant to be argumentative or avoiding your question. I make the assumption that you are going to return the M&P to S&W for warranty repair. If memory serves me correctly S&W on early production units there were issues with dry firing and thus durability of the mechanism . I can't recall how the issue was resolved. I seem to think a design change resolved the issue.

That said my memory on the subject maybe muddled!

 

[tarosean]

So anyone got anything contributory to add relating to my question?

I would say go read Todd G's. pistol-training range reports.. He took some popular guns and ran them till they broke or he didn't feel comfortable carrying them..

FWIW after those tests, he suggests having two separate identical guns. One for carry and the other for training/comp/etc. For the exact reason you had happen..

They are all machines and they will break or wear out eventually.

 

[BSA1]

Didn't the Texas Department of Public Safety return all of their new S&W M&P's to the factory and reissue their Sigs?

 

[ku4hx]

Is there any reliability advantage to a hammer fired gun...

Long before the proliferation of striker fired guns, hammer fired guns were breaking firing pins. The trick is to ID those of either type that seem to break most often and avoid them. Or at least know of their propensity.

Send it to S&W. They'll fix it and if the round count break point is ~1,000 you'll know fairly quickly if the fix took. If it doesn't stay fixed I'd suggest a different gun. Maybe a hammer fired one is the answer.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't think you get any more reliability from a hammer fired gun than a striker gun personally, and striker guns have been around for some time. It's just preferance.

Let S&W fix it and keep shooting. It just sounds like you got a bum part is all. If it happens again, THEN consider changing brands.

I like SA XDm's, FNS pistols, and the HK VP-9 since they feel best in the hand to me. HK also has a great reputation and my HK45 has been fantastic. That doesn't mean an HK won't break some day though. It's a machine.

 

[sigarms228]

Is there any reliability advantage to a hammer fired gun with respect to the gun being able to continue to launch rounds even if something breaks?

Not that I am aware of. Firing pins breaking are fairly uncommon but any part can break. Broken springs are much more common.

If you like your M&P get it fixed rather than changing to a whole new pistol unless you are looking for an excuse to get a different pistol.

A lot of dry firing without a snap cap can cause premature failure of the firing pin.

 

[243winxb]

Inertia firing pin?

mechanics of reliability

Inertia firing pin type firearms like 1911?? But as said, they all will break soon or later.

 

[C0untZer0]

I have a hammer-fired revolver, the transfer bar broke and the revolver became inoperable.

I have a striker-fired HK P7M8 that I've had since 1985 and I've put countless rounds through it and never had a single failure.

The lesson that I personally take away from your story for myself "Have a backup gun"

 

[stoky]

"How many of you carry a spare tire in you vehicle, raise your hand."
--Louis Awerbuck
I like hammer fired pistols, but not a big deal, IMHO. I had a firing pin break in a Garand once. An hour before, I would have sworn it was the most reliable thing in the known universe. I didn't switch platforms to plastic and recycled Budweiser cans.

 

[Welding Rod]

FWIW after those tests, he suggests having two separate identical guns. One for carry and the other for training/comp/etc.

I agree, this approach is quite logical, especially if you shoot a lot.

 

[Zerodefect]

Or you can determine and record your own maintenance schedule. Like any other machine.

I believe the opposite. You should shoot your CCW as often a possible. But you should be METICULOUS at cleaning and replacing wear items. For example, detail stripping a Glock slide to clean the striker and extractor, and replacing the trigger spring and RSA, every 5000 rounds.

I swap out the stock Glock strikers with stronger, lighter, Zev Tech SS strikers. Does anyone make one for the M&P? One of the reasons I've avoided M&P's this long, I have no idea about easy parts support.

 

[Pilot]

Yes, have a back up, but sometimes it is impractical to carry a second gun, or you may not have time to get to it. For courses, or competitions, I typically bring three guns, but have never had any failures in the courses I have run. That could change tomorrow.

If you must have a polymer, striker fired pistol I'd choose a VP-9.

 

[rsrocket1]

I get why you're asking this, but it's a red herring for what I'm asking about. To answer your question, maybe had a 1000 rounds through it. But even if it had 50,000, I want something that's going to get me through the fight.

So anyone got anything contributory to add relating to my question?

Yes, get a backup gun. ANY gun can possibly fail at anyime without the chance of fixing it in the middle of a gunfight. If a firing pin breaks on any firearm, that gun is toast until it can be fixed unless you have a revolver with a firing pin on the hammer. You can get it to shoot (probably only one shot) by driving a nail into the firing pin hole to set the primer off (not really useful in a gunfight).

A backup gun will get you through provided you don't get shot reaching for it after a failure to fire with your primary gun.

My M&P40 has over 30,000 rounds and the striker is still going strong and I use CCI SRP's. Stuff happens. Not every single handguns of any manufacturer will be perfect. Get a replacement striker from S&W (I'm sure they'll replace it for free) and shoot the heck out of it again. If it's good to go, you can be confident it will be reliable. If you don't feel comfortable with it, get rid of it and get something else, but I can guarantee you that there are M9's, Glocks, USGI 1911's and just about any other gun in production that has had early failures. That's why they (usually) have warranties against manufacturing defects.

Good luck.

 

[CTGunner]

I shot a competition last week with an HK VP9. My backup gun was an M&P9. I think the M&P is a well built gun but the HK seems built to a higher standard. I have an early VP9 and it has never malfunctioned. If you want the highest quality striker fired gun currently made I would look at the HK. I don't think that hammer fired would make a difference in durability but HK also does a nice job with their hammer fired guns if that's the direction you want to go.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I get why you're asking this, but it's a red herring for what I'm asking about. To answer your question, maybe had a 1000 rounds through it. But even if it had 50,000, I want something that's going to get me through the fight.?

If you think that is a red herring, than there isn't likely a gun on the market that will be an improvement. I've even seen revolvers break off the nose of their hammers

Any gun made will fail, it is the nature of the machine. This is avoided with first due diligence before purchase and than strict maintenance and part replacement. At only 1000 rounds, I'd suspect a defective part was installed

The common wisdom is to carry a backup gun.

To answer your specific question of the reliability differences between a striker fired gun as opposed to a hammer fired one, there is almost no difference. The firing pin of a hammer fired gun is just as likely or unlikely to break as a striker.

The main difference is that the hammer fired gun usually has a more massive slide and you can place your thumb over the hammer when holstering

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have a striker-fired HK P7M8 that I've had since 1985 and I've put countless rounds through it and never had a single failure.

I must say that my H&K P7 has been the most reliable pistol I've ever carried.

It's design is such that it will continue to function even if the extractor is broken/lost.

Even it's magazines are overbuilt. The only part I've even "heard" of breaking is the retaining collar for the striker...and that was well over 50k rounds

 

[ritepath]

Anything can break...If you're looking for something that will never fail you'd better stick with rocks. But then again you have to hope you never have shoulder problems.



The next squeeze of the trigger on anything could result in no bang.

 

[avqpuggr]

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the feedback.

Long before the proliferation of striker fired guns, hammer fired guns were breaking firing pins. . . . Maybe a hammer fired one is the answer.

Well (and this pretty much answers my question), it sounds like hammer fired guns are not inherently more reliable if they were breaking firing pins as well. This was the essence of my question, whether there was any sort of advantage against this sort of catastrophic failure when comparing Hammer vs. Striker. Sounds like there isn't.

I don't think you get any more reliability from a hammer fired gun than a striker gun personally, and striker guns have been around for some time. It's just preferance.

Thanks.

Not that I am aware of. Firing pins breaking are fairly uncommon but any part can break.

Thanks

The lesson that I personally take away from your story for myself "Have a backup gun"

Oh, a 2nd gun is definitely the answer. But I was interested to know if anyone knew of any info on if there was a reliability difference with respect to broken pins when comparing the two pistol types.

I agree, this approach is quite logical, especially if you shoot a lot.

Yeah, I practice this. But I never carry a gun that has less than a 1,000 rounds through it. I was "breaking in" the M&P for street carry.

 

[gotboostvr]

There's a good amount of love for the P7 in this thread.
Mine was a great pistol.
Took the extractor out one range trip, no issues. Put it back just for peace of mind.
Those magazines almost seems like they're milled, not stamped.
And talk about positive ejection of said magazine!
I could hold the pistol upside down, and the magazine would eject itself clear still.
Great pistol all around.

 

[hAkron]

Inertia firing pin type firearms like 1911?? But as said, they all will break soon or later.

Is that one of those rare 'full auto' Colt's I've heard so much about?

 

[BILLG]

That's why I replaced my M&Ps.Get it fixed sell it and buy a Sig P320 and don't look back.The Sig doesn't need an Apex trigger it doesn't need a bbl replacement.It is good to go rigt out of the box.It has the best striker fired trigger out there.