m1 carbine againts level2 armor?
- Thread starter ulfrik
- Start date
- Status
50caliber123
Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 640
won't stop 7.62x25 tok I've heard. I'm sure level III & IV would stop it though.
Tommygunn
Member
During WW2 it was found the .30 Carbine and the .30-'06 round would penetrate the bullet resistant plate vests Japanese officers sometimes wore while the .45ACP would not.
I think the .30 Carbine would penetrate the level II vest as long as the distance wasn't very great. The carbine round had more penetrative power than many people credit it for even though it was never really known for being nearly as effective of a mankiller as the Garand's round.
That's just my two cents;
I will refuse to wear any vest while testing anything more powerful than a spitball.
I think the .30 Carbine would penetrate the level II vest as long as the distance wasn't very great. The carbine round had more penetrative power than many people credit it for even though it was never really known for being nearly as effective of a mankiller as the Garand's round.
That's just my two cents;
I will refuse to wear any vest while testing anything more powerful than a spitball.
Jim Watson
Member
I believe Second Chance recorded a save from .30 carbine even though the vest was not cataloged to stop it. There is a safety margin, but I would not want to use it if I could help it.
Shadow 7D
Member
Umn, ask the DOJ or the makers, or buy a vest, and some rounds, and send them to BOX-O-TRUTH.com, and you will find out.
Tommygunn
Member
I wouldn't consider the .30 Carbine a pistol round ... although I know they have made pistols for it. Then again I've seen revolvers chambered in .30-30 (wouldn't care to shoot one thanky muchy!) too.
parsimonious_instead
Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 791
There is website called the Box o' Truth which describes many, many homebrew penetration tests against a variety of targets including armor.
Not sure if the site owner/author did .30 carbine against armor, but he certainly did the Tokarev pistol round.
Be careful with questions like this. I forgot which forum it was, but I remember stumbling across a firearms forum with rules that explicitly forbade any mention of armor performance vs. bullets or bullet performance vs. armor.
Not sure if the site owner/author did .30 carbine against armor, but he certainly did the Tokarev pistol round.
Be careful with questions like this. I forgot which forum it was, but I remember stumbling across a firearms forum with rules that explicitly forbade any mention of armor performance vs. bullets or bullet performance vs. armor.
Dazen
Member
Parsimonious, That was the first thing that came to mind when I seen this.
That guy on the Box o' Truth sure has a damn good time, I'm a bit jealous
That guy on the Box o' Truth sure has a damn good time, I'm a bit jealous
Murphy4570
Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2010
- Messages
- 433
Hence why it is called bullet-resistant armor, not bullet-proof. There are limits to any defensive strategy which can invariably be overcome by enough firepower.
parsimonious_instead
Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 791
Dazen: In my head-cold addled state, I missed Shadow 7D's mention of Box O Truth. He actually mentioned it first.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Not sure why it's a strange question. If I was buying some body armor that's the sort of thing I'd want to know.
If I was planning out my defensive strategies in this age of increasingly better-equipped home-invaders, that's again the sort of thing I'd want to know.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
It certainly does happen. Not the kind of thing I worry about, personally, but I live pretty far out in the boonies.
If you search around you'll find some very troubling reports from a few of the major metropolitan centers regarding criminals impersonating law enforcement officers to gain access & control of their victims. And if you're paying any attention to certain regions of the country there has been an alarming trend toward heavily armed and equipped criminal types doing some pretty nasty things.
I don't face any of those issues in my locale (at least the last time I checked the news) but I won't automatically denigrate someone else for having heightened concerns.
.30 Carbine isn't going to make an impression on military armor with plates. And I think we'll have plenty of warning before the "blue helmets" show up in your home town.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
If you look upthread, the context is NIJ Level II soft body armor---basically what a civilian would wear under a shirt, and what any criminal with $250 can easily obtain---rather than what soldiers wear.
To answer the .30-30 question upthread, .30-30 will penetrate *any* soft body armor (NIJ IIIA and below); .30-30 is a rifle round (albeit a relatively low-powered one), and penetrates Kevlar like a rifle round. To stop .30-30, you'd need NIJ Level III hard armor or plate inserts of that rating, and to stop high-powered hunting calibers, you'd need NIJ Level IV.
russ69
Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2009
- Messages
- 320
OK, now we know the why. If I was planning to have some body armor standing by, I would wear the most protective armor I could afford. On the other hand if it was for daily wear, I think I would be more concerned about other more common risks, like a car accident, or a fall in the bathroom.
I'd spend my money on a better front door and a safe room/hide out.
Thanx, Russ
parsimonious_instead
Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 791
MikeP: One infamous spree killer wore body armor during his rampage around town.
One fellow, while watching the news, realized that this person was probably going to his house next, and got his gun ready.
The perp went to his house, forced his way in, and the two shot it out. They both lived - the defender, because he was ready, willing and able to protect himself, and the perp, because of his decision to armor up.
One fellow, while watching the news, realized that this person was probably going to his house next, and got his gun ready.
The perp went to his house, forced his way in, and the two shot it out. They both lived - the defender, because he was ready, willing and able to protect himself, and the perp, because of his decision to armor up.
tarrigoni
Member
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Long story short:
Soft armor is for handguns, and buckshot on the higher end.
Hard armor on top of that is for rifles.
And oh, soft armor will stop a shotgun slug from going through you and out the other side, but it won't stop it from squishing your sternum into your spine.
Soft armor is for handguns, and buckshot on the higher end.
Hard armor on top of that is for rifles.
And oh, soft armor will stop a shotgun slug from going through you and out the other side, but it won't stop it from squishing your sternum into your spine.
Shawn Dodson
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 3,195
lemaymiami
Member
At one point in this thread someone questioned whether you're ever likely to be facing an intruder wearing protective gear.... In my area, south Florida, we had some serious troubles years ago with just that scenario. It got to the point that ordinary citizens were actually advised by mass media to call their local police department and verify that the "police" at their door were legit.... In a very few instances the bad guys were actually real cops... doing a bit of moonlighting for the local heavies. Fortunately that sort of stuff seems to be history now (and I hope it never comes back). We still do occasionally have impersonators trying to do vehicle stops with their very own blue lights and radios... not very often but every now and then.
Fortunately, the kind of guy who's willing to enter another's house isn't likely to be very skilled or competent with weapons. An armed and confident homeowner is a lot more than most of them want to encounter.
By the way, as a guy who wore one of those vests for almost 22 years (had to buy my first one long before my department issued them) it was some comfort in a confrontation but not nearly enough. There's an awful lot of places a vest doesn't cover....
Fortunately, the kind of guy who's willing to enter another's house isn't likely to be very skilled or competent with weapons. An armed and confident homeowner is a lot more than most of them want to encounter.
By the way, as a guy who wore one of those vests for almost 22 years (had to buy my first one long before my department issued them) it was some comfort in a confrontation but not nearly enough. There's an awful lot of places a vest doesn't cover....
- Status
