m1 combat use

[TexasPatriot.308]

I am 59 and a Viet Nam vet, though actually served in Laos. we had old 1911s issued, they were from both world wars, rattled and were slightly more accurate but still more lethal than chunking a rock. our radio operators, most officers, senior officers and couriers of secret documents carried them. cant remember what make I carried, too many years, beers and who knows what we smoked over there .

 

[Loc n Load]

The M1 Garand

My dad, and five of my Uncles were all WWII combat vet's, all had a lot of experience with the Garand, in the Pacific and the European theaters. They had nothing but good things to say about it. I shot one competitively in service rifle/hi power matches for ten years. I have seen skilled riflemen shoot " leg matches" at 1000 yds with M1's, iron sights. The 30-06 is a classic round, and it performs extremely well on "soft targets". The Garand is one of the most effective rifles ever produced IMHO. I have a lot of trigger time on the M-14/M1A also, and they are IMO "upgraded" Garands.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The M14 has been called the "Perfected Garand" with justification.

The Garand's flaw, if it can be said to have one, was the en bloc clip, which was essentially foisted off on Garand by John Pedersen -- all Garand's early designs had box magazines.

The flaw in the en bloc clip was its complexity. Strip a Garand and look at all the parts necessary to receive the clip, lock it in, eject it on the last round, or allow the shooter to eject a partially empty clip. Gunsmiths who know the Garand talk about "timing" -- which is getting all those complex parts to work together properly.

The effect of this complexity was that only Winchester and Springfield were able to manufacture Garands that actually worked -- other companies tried it, but most of their production had to be reworked at Springfield. It wasn't until the Korean War that other companies were able to manufacture quality Garands.

 

[d2wing]

I tend to agree with Vern. I qualified with and used both the M-14 and M-16 rifle and owed a Garand. The Garand is in a class by itself the king of battle rifles. But for general use I like the M-14 better. It is shorter, lighter has faster and safer reloading, and could shoot full auto. It made a better hunting rifle do to less weight. There is no doubt the 30-06 was the most powerful accurate rugged and a great combat weapon. But M-14 was just right. And incredibly accurate. I can tell you they could hit the 600 meter targets if you could.
The M-16 is good in it's own right but the Garand is a grand rifle mans rifle. While I agree the M-14 is improved. No rifle will replace the Garand in stature.
Maybe it would be different if the M-14 was the main rifle in a major war and we could get the actual rifles. But that did not happen.

 

[col.lemat]

My father loved the BAR for its accuracy as he could fire off one round at a time with his light finger touch on slow fire plus the 20 round box magazine.
Started fires with tracers with the M1 at 500 yards and loved armor piercing rounds while with the Armys 27 divison at Okinowa. Picked up a discarded model 55 Reising without the wire stock from the Marines. He would use that with a mashed in Thompson magazine & just the one round in the chamber (fires from closed bolt) for guarding prisoners. He said it looked cool and no one in the army had ever seen one.
At wars end he went to the 11th airborne and prefered the carbine over the M1 because of the weight factor. He weighed 127 pounds and to insure that he would drop faster they made him the 60 MM base plate man.

 

[Hangingrock]

I’ve never had an appreciation for the M1 rifle.

At ITR (Infantry Training Regiment) we used the M1 for all courses of fire. Viet-Nam the ARVN and PF (Popular Forces) were issued M1 rifles along with other United States small arms of the period. At GITMO I instructed naval personnel that comprised part of the defense battalion basic marksmanship with the M1 converted to 7.62mm NATO.

I always thought the M1 carbine would have been the better selection for small stature users such as the Vietnamese and naval personnel that weren’t al that enthusiastic about small arms and marksmanship.

Personal basis the M14 which people refer to as the product improved M1 was the better of the two. The M1 has its place in history thou not a place in my heart.

 

[dmazur]

My uncle carried a M1 in Europe. He didn't talk about it much, except he once said it was reliable even during the brutal winter conditions of the Battle of the Bulge.

Many years after this talk with my uncle, I wound up with a Garand (in 7.62) for a couple of weeks for basic marksmanship when I was in the Navy. The rest of the time we carried inert Springfields, which worked just fine as a 9 lb exercise device...

I have a M1 now, somewhat for nostalgic reasons.

It is still a heavy beast.

 

[Voodoochile]

My grandfather was issued the 03A3 during his first engagements in Italy but later was issued the Garand.
He liked the ability of a quick second shot but he didn't like that you couldn't top off the magazine before continuing down a street otherwise he couldn't find any other faults.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I always thought the M1 carbine would have been the better selection for small stature users such as the Vietnamese and naval personnel that weren’t al that enthusiastic about small arms and marksmanship.

My experience with the carbine left a bad taste in my mouth. And the ARVN Infantry I advised, regardless of their short stature definitely preferred the Garand.

 

[rcmodel]

but he didn't like that you couldn't top off the magazine before continuing down a street

I continue to see that repeated over & over again.

But it simply isn't the case.

You could easily eject a partial clip and reload a full clip.
Then reload the partial clip at your leisure.

Or, you could easily top off the partial clip in the rifle, if you were carrying any loose ammo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NbefyN0-M

rc

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Hmmmm, try that when seconds count, your knees are knocking, your teeth chattering, and your heart is beating more than a hundred times a minute.

 

[Hangingrock]

Vern Humphery:My experience with the carbine left a bad taste in my mouth. And the ARVN Infantry I advised, regardless of their short stature definitely preferred the Garand.

Different time, place, and ARVN unit would account for difference of opinion in regards to the M1 and M1 carbine.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Different time, place, and ARVN unit would account for difference of opinion in regards to the M1 and M1 carbine.

Very likely. But having had one bad experience, I considered the fact that I might not survive a second such experience, got rid of the M2 and carried a Garand from then on.

 

[Zombiphobia]

My grandfather was in the Navy and I don't know what weapons he had other than a knife. He never talked about it and I can't recall ever asking, but my grandmother says he had only a knife in Okinawa, Japan while performing search and rescue missions as they couldn't use firearms because the passing enemy patrols would then be able to locate them.

FWIW he was fond of shotguns, so I suspect he may have used them at some point during the war as he was frequently in close quarters combat situations, but I don't know.

I know that doesn't answer the OP's question in any way, but I figured it's worth sharing.

 

[herkyguy]

I dragged the venerable old M1 all over........a parade field.

But i thought it pretty cool that the bugger probably had quite a history...even with a de-milled barrel.

 

[mtrmn]

I see several stories here where the vets never or rarely talked about their war experience. My father was one of those. I have a few pictures and letters he sent home from training, and later from Japan during the occupation after the war, but the letters are all just general small talk to his younger siblings and parents. Only once or twice in my lifetime did he ever mention anything that went on in the Phillipine invasion and everyone just knew deep down that it was something that was NEVER asked about. I know his sisters said he was never the same after he came back and he had "nervous" problems the rest of his life.
I had a couple uncles about the same way, and a couple more uncles that talked about the war all the time. Come to find out, the ones that talked about it a lot were not in the thick of the combat on the front lines. They were support in the rear areas-which is equally important, don't get me wrong. Just that they didn't see the bad stuff the front line troops saw.