M1 Doubleing

[pdh]

I had my M1 completely redone by a very reputable 'smith' . New Barrel.....stockset...complete inspection and overhaul on parts needing replaced.....parkerizing.
Now.....the trigger was tuned down to 4 Lbs ...for match work.

I have been bench shooting off sandbags single loading the rifle. I lately have been shooting off the sandbags with a full clip and my rifle has been double firing...... I have been told....that you do not milk the M1 trigger...sqeeze the trigger as in shooting for tight groups......
Is this a typical occurance for the M1s to do this under these circumstances....???????

Thank you.....

 

[Bullseye57]

Typically doubling is a symptom of a trigger that is too light. When a trigger job is performed on M1's frequently the hammer hooks will go lighter than 4lbs. NRA match specifications are 4.5 lbs for service rifle trigger weight. Have your smith relook at the hammer hooks/trigger group again.

 

[Dienekes]

It happens. Usually it's from accumulated wear, too light a trigger job, or can be from grease or oil on the hammer hooks (they should be dry). I had fulton armory do a trigger job on my favorite rifle a while back and it has doubled twice now. Usual cure is to replace the trigger/sear and hammer.

I keep sets around as this is to be expected now and then if you shoot M1s much.

 

[Sam]

They will also do it if you milk the trigger and if you are a really good bolt gun shooter who freezes pull at release it will do it for/to you.

Sam

 

[hillbilly]

I've got a Garand and an M1A.

When shooting my Garand or M1A, I have to adjust my trigger pull completely if I've been shooting any of the match grade air rifles used by the college club team that I coach.

If I use the target rifle trigger squeeze on my Garand or my M1A, they will double.

I have to make concious decisions to "squeeze the trigger all the way" with the Garand and the M1A.

hillbilly

 

[hps1]

Bullseye57
Typically doubling is a symptom of a trigger that is too light. When a trigger job is performed on M1's frequently the hammer hooks will go lighter than 4lbs. NRA match specifications are 4.5 lbs for service rifle trigger weight. Have your smith relook at the hammer hooks/trigger group again.

What Bullseye57 said. Check out the trigger group section of following web page. Describes trigger group and shows how sear catches front hook on the hammer. The only inacuracy on this animation is the "disconnect" which is the green part on back of trigger (brown). The disconnect actually traps the hammer on reacoil by catching the back hooks on the hammer (green) {which is not depicted in animation}; then as the trigger is released, the disconnect releases the hammer and the sear catches the front hook, preventing doubling. If someone has changed the angles on the hammer/sear/disconnect surfaces or shortened the rear hooks on the hammer (a common mistake made by less experienced gas gun plumbers) doubling can occur.

Click on "trigger group action" to cycle the animation:
http://www.garandflash.com/trigger.html

Another interesting animation depicts the cycling of action of the garand:

http://www.dav32.com/feeding.html

Regards,
hps

 

[3 gun]

What you describe sounds more like bump firing to me. If the trigger alone was to blame you "should" of had a discharge firing single rounds too. That and the fact you haven't had a full clip go at once. Bump firing is easy to do on a bench if you don't pull the rifle firmly into your shoulder and you don't keep the trigger back firmly at the break of the shot. Next time you shoot from the bench make an effort to get behind the rifle like you were going to be firing unsupported in a prone position instead of with sandbags. This with good trigger control will tell you for sure if you have a problem. When testing this only load 2 rounds in case it is the trigger group, just to be safe.

 

[pdh]

Thanks for all of the help...
I can pretty much say...shooting off the bench...I do not have the rifle firmly snug on my shoulder. On trigger control....hold the trigger back after discharge of round??????????????

3 gun....I will go through want you said.

The thing about it....I have a another M1 in 308 that was accurized and I have not had any trouble with it doubling what so ever......

Thanks again

 

[MechAg94]

3 gun is describing what happened to me last year. I was shooting my Garand off a full rest for the first time. It doubled. I switched to my M1A and it did the same thing. Since then, I have just used the front rest and held the rear up firmly against my shoulder. No problems since. I have started doing this with most of my semi-auto's.

 

[Swampy]

pdh,

Just to reiterate.....

Doubling is fairly common to the M1-M14 rifles, even with a fully serviceable trigger group, when any of the following conditions occur:

1) Loose grip on the rifle when benched
2) Lack of full follow through on the pull
3) Too light of a "trigger job"

NRA and CMP specify a 4.5 lb MINIMUM pull on an M1 or M14 to be legal for competition. Most armorers set the pull at 4.75 lb. to allow for wear in. The 'smith who worked on your M1 should have known this if he is any kind of M1 mechanic at all. This spec has been the same for 50+ years and is the "gold standard" in any and all reference manuals on the M1.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

owner Swampworks INc. / JLK Bullets
JLK Bullets

 

[30Cal]

Use a firm grasp on the rifle. Do not SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE the trigger as a benchrester would. Just squeeze it.

If the trigger is truly less than 4.5lbs, then get it fixed.

Ty

 

[30Cal]

Also, commercial stocksets have been known to have a lot of fitting issues, especially Boyd's. It's very common for them to cause the rear of the trigger group to hang too low which will prevent the hammer from being caught reliably. Do the following safety check.

Hold the trigger to the rear and cycle the oprod. Make sure the hammer didn't follow the bolt forward. Repeat about 2 dozen times.

 

[pdh]

Gents....my rifle was worked over by Roland Beaver....he is one of the best on the business.....Roland did set my M1 up for the "John C Garand " matches.....

I am pretty sure it is my shooting style since going over you fine gentleman's reply.....I have been SQUEEEEEZZZZZINg the trigger as 30 Cal has mentioned.

A friend has a trigger pull weight tool...I will check the pull...

Will let you guys know how I make out and thanks again.......Paul

 

[Swampy]

pdh,

If Roland built your M1 and set the trigger you can bet it's NRA-CMP legal, i.e. 4.5 lb +.

That means that the problem part in this equation is YOU.....

BTW, a slow squeeze on the trigger is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you have the rifle FIRMLY into your shoulder and you do a solid follow through.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[JeffreyWarren]

Doubles

I had a Mini-14 double fire. It would fire once when trigger was pulled and then fire again after I let up the trigger. After field stripping it I found a small twig about the size of a paper match stuck in the trigger mechanism. That was a quick cure but was very disconcerning while it happened. I also know of a guy at an old sportsman club-range who bought one of those $400 peicemeal G3 (HK-91 clones). That during firing was double , and triple firing...After he finished firing a 20 round mag. I told him to immediately take the gun to either a gunsmith, or to the gunshow where he purchased it.
ATF doesnt play around with things like that. While it may be a "glitch" to us shooters. Any firearm which fires more then one shot per pull of the trigger...if not a registered machine gun and legally owned. Can get you into a world of legal hurt.
Get your rifle to the gunshow asap and get the doubling fixed.

 

[P-32]

I have a Roland Beaver 308 M-1 which shoots very well and is used in competion....if you try to gently pull the trigger back, it will double as will any USGI service rifle with a 2 stage trigger. I've even got a double with my AR! It has a tuned RRA 2 stage.

 

[runninmike]

It certainly could be alot of different things. Could be your shooting tecnique, or it could be a little piece of glass bedding is causing the trigger to stick and trip again easily. I've seen that many times before because I used to build M-14s for the USMC rifle team @ Quantico and they are very similar in the trigger mech & stock of an M-1. If the trigger is adjusted very light, and 4# is very light for an across the course gun, it could easily bang twice. I would disassemble it and check for little pieces of glass and wood chips and even grit in the trigg mech. Sometimes a little glass can get stuck in the trigger pin hole and surrounding areas and cause havoc as I've had 1 go 5 shots while function firing after a fresh rebuild. Minor prob, you'll figure it out with test firing and cleaning. If it keeps doubling on you after a good clean and inspection, have your smitty add a tiny bit of weight back. Just requires a light grit sand paper applied behind the sear and a couple of strokes at a time to add just a little more carry (this will not affect the hammer hook to sear engagement). If you do add weight, make sure again that any grit from the job is removed.
FYI- a 5# trigger can break like glass and feel like 3-4#s if done right.
Best-MC

 

[MechAg94]

Having a gun that fires full auto due to malfunction is not just an ATF thing, it is a safety issue.