M1 Garand converted to use BAR mags

[krs]

That's PEDERSEN for the wikipedia researchers in here, the designer of the Remington 51 pistol, amongst his 69 patents.

 

[Joe Demko]

Sounds like fun, now substitute paper targets for loose wild boars, and the cartridge effectiveness can also be judged. Quickest to put all the piggies down wins.

Better yet, let's substitute invisible blood-sucking clowns with guns for hands.

 

[irishsquid]

krs,

My error. Thanks for the correct spelling.

 

[ilbob]

"The rifle must be so designed that the magazine may be fed from clips or chargers. The magazine may be detachable, but this is not considered desirable. The capacity of the magazine should not be less than five rounds, preferably ten, but not to exceed ten rounds."

Strange as it may now seem, Ordnance Department didn't want detachable, high capacity magazines when they were looking for a replacement for the beloved M1903.

There was great reluctance to have a faster firing rifle because of the fear that soldiers would shoot too much. This was a big deal back then. Some people have claimed it was because the army was still using animals to transport a lot of its supplies, but I think it was just mindset. It also affected an enormous amount of logistical tables that would have to be adjusted. It seems silly now, but back then somehow it made sense.

There was also great fear that soldiers would lose a detachable magazine, creating more logistics problems and the potential for a useless rifle in combat. I don't think it occurred to anyone that the answer lay in issuing multiple detachable magazines to each soldier. They had it in their head that the detachable magazines would never really be detached and would be refilled from cheap stripper clips, so why have the detachable magazines.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Sounds like fun, now substitute paper targets for loose wild boars, and the cartridge effectiveness can also be judged. Quickest to put all the piggies down wins.

And when an army of wild pigs starts marching on Washington DC, that will be an important consideration until then, 5.56mm remains the round of choice even for the guys who can pick alternatives -- if it's good enough for the super cool kids in Delta Force, I'd be inclined to think it's good enough for any competent shooter . . .

 

[Prod]

IIRC the Garand was originally designed for the .276 but then re-chambered for .30-06 per Uncle Sam's request.

 

[Joe Demko]

From what I have read, the refusal to change calibers was driven by large stocks of .30-06 ammunition already on hand and an existing manufacturing base to produce more. Some authors also cited a reluctance to change machinegun cartridges or use different cartridges between rifles and machineguns. Economically, that attitude made a lot of sense.

 

[Ron James]

Pedersons cartridge also had to be coated with a special hard wax to get his design to work properly. He sold the design to the Japanese with out telling them about the special wax coating. With out this information they could never get the gun to work properly and gave up on it.
Another little bit of unknown history . An added note. The reason Peterson didn't give the Japanese all the required info had to do with a contract dispute. He was supposed to help design and produce the rifle but the Japanese reneged on the contract. So, Peterson just smiled and went his merry way. So as it turned out, instead of an semi-auto rifle, the allies had to face bolt actions. Of course this happened way before WWII.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Pedersons cartridge also had to be coated with a special hard wax to get his design to work properly. He sold the design to the Japanese with out telling them about the special wax coating. With out this information they could never get the gun to work properly and gave up on it.

The issue wasn't the ammo, it was Pederson's rifle design that was in competition with Garand's design. Pederson's rifle required waxed ammo (in whatever caliber) to function reliably, but 276 Pedersen ammo ran fine without waxing in Garands.

Intriguingly, even 276 Pedersen was a compromise to the sensibilities of senior army leadership types. The even lighter .25" caliber round that was tested was the real stand out entry that the test board members wanted to pursue further.

 

[Ron James]

I have read of Mr. Peterson's time with Remington " that he never used just one part, when he could made two do the same job"

 

[Mandolin]

Full-auto Garands

As for a selective-fire Garand, if an M-14 is uncontrollable on full-auto, just imagine trying to control a burst of .30-06 from Garand.

In WW2, one of the men in the 82nd Airborne, Sgt. Forest Gurth,modafied some M-1s to go full-auto. Maj. Winters took one of the modifed Garands with him to Korea. I got that from Steven Ambrose's book Band of Brothers, chapter 18. I imagine the result was a little like the Glock 18 to fire: hard to control, not much ammo, and unpleasnt to be hit by. I don't want to imagine the recoil.: