M1 Safe Factory ammo?
- Thread starter mparris71
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SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI
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PMC Bronze Line 30-06 is pretty similar to M2 Ball and is relatively cheap (for 30-06 that is
Amish_Bill
Member
I assume you're talking about the M1 Garand?
If so, you want to stick to plain 150 gr ammo. Heavier ammo (170+ gr) and any of the hotter ammo, like the Hornady Light Magnums, will beat the action of an M1 Garand into submission.
You can probably get away with 168 gr match ammo, but I wouldn't go any heavier.
You can shoot the heaviest slugs over the hottest loads out of your bolt guns, and some reasonably heavy loads from an M1a/M14, but the gas system on an M1 Garand is designed to run with average 150 gr loads, and is not friendly to much else.
Please don't go overboard with it. An M1 is a sad thing to waste.
If so, you want to stick to plain 150 gr ammo. Heavier ammo (170+ gr) and any of the hotter ammo, like the Hornady Light Magnums, will beat the action of an M1 Garand into submission.
You can probably get away with 168 gr match ammo, but I wouldn't go any heavier.
You can shoot the heaviest slugs over the hottest loads out of your bolt guns, and some reasonably heavy loads from an M1a/M14, but the gas system on an M1 Garand is designed to run with average 150 gr loads, and is not friendly to much else.
Please don't go overboard with it. An M1 is a sad thing to waste.
Swampy
Member
mparris71,
Get some Federal American Eagle brand 30-06. It's relatively inexpensive and is M2 ball equivalent, fmj round. Also, the brass is re-loadable.
As previously stated, the Garand has a "tender" gas system that is designed to operate with ammo working in a narrow range of gas port pressure. Note that the M1's ACTION is as strong as any other, but the design parameters of the gas system must be observed to prevent damage to it.
The rule of thumb for reloading for the M1 Garand is as follows:
1) NEVER load with bullets heavier than 180 grains
2) NEVER load with powder that is SLOWER than IMR-4320
A loading of a 147-150 fmj over 4895 is equal to the basic M2 ball load. For decades the primo M1 Match load has been a 168 or 173 grain pill over IMR-4064.
Note that many commercial hunting rounds are loaded with powders too slow for the M1's gas system... even those with bullets in the 150 grain range. Best to avoid commercial hunting ammo. If you want to hunt, load your own with the rules above.
Best regards,
Swampy
Garands forever
Get some Federal American Eagle brand 30-06. It's relatively inexpensive and is M2 ball equivalent, fmj round. Also, the brass is re-loadable.
As previously stated, the Garand has a "tender" gas system that is designed to operate with ammo working in a narrow range of gas port pressure. Note that the M1's ACTION is as strong as any other, but the design parameters of the gas system must be observed to prevent damage to it.
The rule of thumb for reloading for the M1 Garand is as follows:
1) NEVER load with bullets heavier than 180 grains
2) NEVER load with powder that is SLOWER than IMR-4320
A loading of a 147-150 fmj over 4895 is equal to the basic M2 ball load. For decades the primo M1 Match load has been a 168 or 173 grain pill over IMR-4064.
Note that many commercial hunting rounds are loaded with powders too slow for the M1's gas system... even those with bullets in the 150 grain range. Best to avoid commercial hunting ammo. If you want to hunt, load your own with the rules above.
Best regards,
Swampy
Garands forever
Nando Aqui
Member
SWAMPY:
Hopefully I don't overtax your welcome attitude to questions. I haven't been able to get a factual answer to the following, and I thought that perhaps you might know.
How does the Lake City M2 Ball that the CMP, after long anticipation, has finally started to sell, compare to the Danish 30-06 that we have been buying recently and has been excellent?
Thanks!
Alex
Hopefully I don't overtax your welcome attitude to questions. I haven't been able to get a factual answer to the following, and I thought that perhaps you might know.
How does the Lake City M2 Ball that the CMP, after long anticipation, has finally started to sell, compare to the Danish 30-06 that we have been buying recently and has been excellent?
Thanks!
Alex
Swampy
Member
Nando Aqui wrote:
Sorry, but I dunno'....
It's reported to be Lake City '72 vintage.
It should be fine ammo.... but as far as accuracy goes, we won't know until reports begin filtering back to the net from guys who've bought some and tried it.
Just from my own past experiences here locally....
LC-69 (from CMP circa 3 years ago). Reliable, with mediocre accuracy.
LC-66 (from CMP circa 2 years ago). Reliable, very good accuracy.
Dane AMA 80 (club bought it from AIM, I think) Reliable, very accurate.
In any case... you can probably bet that it will be the issued ammo at most of next years JCG Matches regardless of accuracy. At least everyone will be on the same playing field. If the reports from CMP can be believed, they expect to get enough of this from the Army to last 2-3 years (at the rate of sales from the LAST batch of LC).
Won't know how the LC-72 stacks up accuracy wise until reports come in..... Might be some results within the next few days.... won't have massive input for weeks maybe...
Kinda' like Election 2000, huh.......
Best,
Swampy
Sorry, but I dunno'....
It's reported to be Lake City '72 vintage.
It should be fine ammo.... but as far as accuracy goes, we won't know until reports begin filtering back to the net from guys who've bought some and tried it.
Just from my own past experiences here locally....
LC-69 (from CMP circa 3 years ago). Reliable, with mediocre accuracy.
LC-66 (from CMP circa 2 years ago). Reliable, very good accuracy.
Dane AMA 80 (club bought it from AIM, I think) Reliable, very accurate.
In any case... you can probably bet that it will be the issued ammo at most of next years JCG Matches regardless of accuracy. At least everyone will be on the same playing field. If the reports from CMP can be believed, they expect to get enough of this from the Army to last 2-3 years (at the rate of sales from the LAST batch of LC).
Won't know how the LC-72 stacks up accuracy wise until reports come in..... Might be some results within the next few days.... won't have massive input for weeks maybe...
Kinda' like Election 2000, huh.......
Best,
Swampy
B27
Member
What Swampy said.
Some of the guys at my club who don't shoot their Garands a great deal just buy the Federal American Eagle FMJ load and it appears to work just fine.
I also used to shoot (before the Danish milsurp showed up) a lot of GA Arms canned heat in .30-06 and the stuff was amazingly accurate.
I shot some groups with it out of my National Match M1 that were match level accurate.
www.georgia-arms.com
Some of the guys at my club who don't shoot their Garands a great deal just buy the Federal American Eagle FMJ load and it appears to work just fine.
I also used to shoot (before the Danish milsurp showed up) a lot of GA Arms canned heat in .30-06 and the stuff was amazingly accurate.
I shot some groups with it out of my National Match M1 that were match level accurate.
www.georgia-arms.com
cracked butt
Member
I've used winchester white box in my garand I think it cost me about $8 per box. It didn't harm my rifle, and seemed to be pretty mild, but the accuracy was pretty mediocre. Not sure if its an M2 ball equivalent, but I assumed as much as you don't see too much 30-06 ammo loaded with 147 gr fmj's that aren't.
VG
Member
Sir, I've shot Danish AMA 74 and 91 and LC 66 and Federal AE through fivfe different Garands in the last year. I shot the three milsurp rounds through each new rifle I get to see what they can do.
I've found that different rifles shoot the AMA or LC66 differently. Some shoot one or the other better, some about the same. Keep in mind that a good Service Grade Garand shoots roughly 3" groups at 100 yards, so if you're in that ballpark, the ammo the job.
Most Danish ammo is boat-tailed, so it would presumably shoot better in 300 and 600 Service Rifle stages. But Garand matches are usually 200.
The Danish ammo is a little hotter and generally requires 2-3 fewer clicks of elevation at 100 yards. And it's not reloadable. Haven't shot the Korean surplus.
I generally avoid commercial ammo in my Garand. It's either Mil-Surp or hamdloads.
All commercial .30-06 ammo I've seen generates too much muzzle velocity to be Mil-Surp equivilent. For 150 grainers we're talking 2800 fps as Mil-Spec & even American Eagle lists theirs at 2900. Not much of a difference for a bolt gun, but ya gotta remember with Garands gas port pressure, not chamber pressure is your limiting factor.
The only commercial ammo I've seen that is within safe pressure specs (as guestimated by comparing muzzle velocity to Mil-Surp ammo) is federal Gold Medal Match. But at $25 a box I shy away from it. $1.25 per round is a bit pricey considering I can put together handloads of the same quality for less than half of that, & you can still buy Mil-Surp ammo all day long for under $0.30 a round.
BTW, reloading for a Garand is different than reloading for a bolt gun. A little bit more involved.
Basically you'll need a cartridge headspace gauge, a primer pocket uniformer, possibly some small base dies if the standard full length sizing dies don't get the brass sized down enough, & a primer & primer pocket crimp remover if you want to reload Mil-Surp brass. Also your powder selection will be limited as too fast or too slow a powder can damage the op rod & personally I'd recommend using CCI No. 34 primers exclusively in the Garand. They're Mil-Spec hard & magnum equivilent. federal primers are relatively soft & should be avoided. & stick with bullets in the 147 to 178 grain weights. I've heard you can use lighter bullets (though I've never done so myself) but under no circumstances should you use heavier bullets.
Most of this is to prevent slam fires because your Garand has a heavy bolt that moves with a lot of energy & a free floating firing pin. If the cartridge isn't sized enough, the primer isn't below flush, or the primer is too soft even if it is below flush, you could have a cartridge fire the second the bolt slams home. Or worse - a cartridge that fires before the bolt locks up.
The rest is to prebent op-rod damage. powders outside the prescribed burn rate &/or heavier than prescribed bullets can stress the op-rod & bend it. If you have a bent op-rod you're looking at some cash to repair or replace it. Much more cash than you'd have spent on the most expensive correct components.
It's not that much of a pain to go through the extra steps to reload for a Garand but it is necessary. If you want more info lemme know.
BTW, you can use any powder/bullet combination if you disable the gas system. This is effect turns your garand into a manually operated bolt action. But if you have some ammo you just have to shoot through it then unscrew the gas cylinder plug & hope the front sight doesn't move too much. (it shouldn't but since I've never tried it I can't say for sure).
Barring that, stay away from the commercial stuff no matter what anyone else says. An op-rod may last dozens or several dozens of rounds with the wrong ammo but it's not a risk I'd recommend
All commercial .30-06 ammo I've seen generates too much muzzle velocity to be Mil-Surp equivilent. For 150 grainers we're talking 2800 fps as Mil-Spec & even American Eagle lists theirs at 2900. Not much of a difference for a bolt gun, but ya gotta remember with Garands gas port pressure, not chamber pressure is your limiting factor.
The only commercial ammo I've seen that is within safe pressure specs (as guestimated by comparing muzzle velocity to Mil-Surp ammo) is federal Gold Medal Match. But at $25 a box I shy away from it. $1.25 per round is a bit pricey considering I can put together handloads of the same quality for less than half of that, & you can still buy Mil-Surp ammo all day long for under $0.30 a round.
BTW, reloading for a Garand is different than reloading for a bolt gun. A little bit more involved.
Basically you'll need a cartridge headspace gauge, a primer pocket uniformer, possibly some small base dies if the standard full length sizing dies don't get the brass sized down enough, & a primer & primer pocket crimp remover if you want to reload Mil-Surp brass. Also your powder selection will be limited as too fast or too slow a powder can damage the op rod & personally I'd recommend using CCI No. 34 primers exclusively in the Garand. They're Mil-Spec hard & magnum equivilent. federal primers are relatively soft & should be avoided. & stick with bullets in the 147 to 178 grain weights. I've heard you can use lighter bullets (though I've never done so myself) but under no circumstances should you use heavier bullets.
Most of this is to prevent slam fires because your Garand has a heavy bolt that moves with a lot of energy & a free floating firing pin. If the cartridge isn't sized enough, the primer isn't below flush, or the primer is too soft even if it is below flush, you could have a cartridge fire the second the bolt slams home. Or worse - a cartridge that fires before the bolt locks up.
The rest is to prebent op-rod damage. powders outside the prescribed burn rate &/or heavier than prescribed bullets can stress the op-rod & bend it. If you have a bent op-rod you're looking at some cash to repair or replace it. Much more cash than you'd have spent on the most expensive correct components.
It's not that much of a pain to go through the extra steps to reload for a Garand but it is necessary. If you want more info lemme know.
BTW, you can use any powder/bullet combination if you disable the gas system. This is effect turns your garand into a manually operated bolt action. But if you have some ammo you just have to shoot through it then unscrew the gas cylinder plug & hope the front sight doesn't move too much. (it shouldn't but since I've never tried it I can't say for sure).
Barring that, stay away from the commercial stuff no matter what anyone else says. An op-rod may last dozens or several dozens of rounds with the wrong ammo but it's not a risk I'd recommend
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