I really don't care what DawgFvr thinks can or can't be done at long range with open sights, but it does bring up an interesting point. Many people (mostly non-shooters) think it's impossible to hit anything past 100 yds without a scope. I can't tell you the number of people I've talked to whose jaws drop when you explain a Highpower match to them. In fact, I just took a guy from work shooting over the weekend and taught him the National Match course of fire. He has done plinking before, but never past 100 yds. At first, he thought it was incredible that anyone could hit anything even at 300 yds with open sights. By the time we finished, he was a believer.
M16 rifle at 1000 yards.
- Thread starter LawDog
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PvtPyle said:
heh, sure, but i can't claim it is original. (an old friend of mine and I were arguing about whether a certain girl was more or less intelligent than a cow, and in her defense, he exclaimed "for Christ's sake, you can hunt them with a hammer!" I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it since then.)
<queue natural selection>
Regarding Palma...
I thought the Palma matches limited one to launching 155gr bullets from a .308 Winchester gun?
Taliv, I hear ya.
It's one of the things about THR I dislike - when correction is warranted, folks, including moderators, tend to pile on like a free-for-all at a hockey game. This thread is no exception.
I thought the Palma matches limited one to launching 155gr bullets from a .308 Winchester gun?
Taliv, I hear ya.
It's one of the things about THR I dislike - when correction is warranted, folks, including moderators, tend to pile on like a free-for-all at a hockey game. This thread is no exception.
taliv said;
Because posers like that steal from all of us who have served. My personal reason for calling them out is that one of the byproducts of 30+ years of an all volunteer military is that so few people have served, that a poser can get away with it for a long time. And by doing that, and spreading misinformation and lies, he casts a pall over all of the real veterans.
Jeff
Because posers like that steal from all of us who have served. My personal reason for calling them out is that one of the byproducts of 30+ years of an all volunteer military is that so few people have served, that a poser can get away with it for a long time. And by doing that, and spreading misinformation and lies, he casts a pall over all of the real veterans.
Jeff
"Is the ability to hit a 600 yrd target with an m16 seriously in such contention on this board that it requires so many THR heavyweights to provide proof?"
I am currently involved in another thread on this board where a number of people don't think you could possibly hit a target past 300 yards with a scoped,bolt action, .30 rifle.
I am currently involved in another thread on this board where a number of people don't think you could possibly hit a target past 300 yards with a scoped,bolt action, .30 rifle.
Jeff, I don't know that he so much steals from the veterans-what I picked up in my military service is priceless to me, and nobody can ever take that away from me, or you for that matter. What it did do is make him look like a fool. I do understand a bit of the anger, but I have learned people like that are not worth my time.
When I first saw the comments posted by DawgFvr (in another thread) I was shocked! Being generally a lurker I didn't immediately respond. I am a Marine (97-01) and know his claims are baseless. Every Marine qualifies from boot camp at that range (and apparently the other services fire from that distance as well).
I guess I'd just like to say thank you to all of you that posted on this subject. I know that a 500+ shot with an M16 isn't effortless, but it certainly is not impossible (or even improbable) with iron sights.
-Shadizar
I didn't immediately respond. I am a Marine (97-01) and know his claims are baseless. Every Marine qualifies from boot camp at that range (and apparently the other services fire from that distance as well). I guess I'd just like to say thank you to all of you that posted on this subject. I know that a 500+ shot with an M16 isn't effortless, but it certainly is not impossible (or even improbable) with iron sights.
-Shadizar
Jon Coppenbarger
Member
In the US you can shoot the 223 service rifle in the palma matches all the way up to and to include the nationals. It is counted in the final standings and most times also have a seperate classification also. If you shoot international as like for the United States Palma team final try outs to determine who is going to shoot for the US around the world once every like 4 or 6 years what ever it is. Never tried out so the year thing I can not remember off the top of my head right now. See when the other country's around the world compete it is the 155 grain 308 so we must comform to the international palma rules for those events certain events.
Jon,
Thanks for the clarification on the Palma International rules. I was trying to figure out where a .223 fit into a predominately .308/155gr Sierra Palma bullet game.
Correia,
I understand. I'm a (semi-reformed) cow tipper, myself. No hammers, just put a shoulder into it.
Thanks for the clarification on the Palma International rules. I was trying to figure out where a .223 fit into a predominately .308/155gr Sierra Palma bullet game.
Correia,
I understand. I'm a (semi-reformed) cow tipper, myself. No hammers, just put a shoulder into it.
The REAL giveaway was that he kept arguing so long. If he had even an inkling about any of the things he was pretending to be an expert on, he would have immediately realized that his position was completely untenable and that saying anything more was just going to make it more and more obvious that he was a pretender.
I was on a team that won 3 civilian titles at Camp Perry for the NTIT match and we were the first civilian team to actually top the USAMU in that event in '96. The object is to dump as many rounds as possible into the Echo target at 500 & 600 yards in a time limit of 50 seconds. Some of our shooters pulled a clean score at 600 yards,dumping 26 to 30 rounds into the target in the allocated time depending on their load plan. In '96 and '97 I never dropped a round at 600 & 500 yards as the right swing man with a 30-rd load plan. It's not that I'm a great shot by any stretch...just a lot of practice and I tend not to make too many boo-boo's.
The AMU and Marine team shooters can do far better on a more consistent basis as they do a mag change to get 40+ rounds downrange in 50 seconds. They'd better be that good seeing that they get paid for it
The point I'd like to make is that even a rummy like myself can hit targets pretty solidly using a sling and iron sights with an M16 at 600 yards. I've tried my hand at 1000 using the M16, but never quite had the setup to be effective. My bullets were running out of gas beyond 900 yards. At 800 & 900yards however, the rifle was deadly if you did everything right. I didn't lose many points at 800 & 900 yards as it was the ballistic equal to my normal bolt-gun.
Regarding Palma. I've shot a few of those matches and they can be interesting. I scored for the gal that won the service rifle end of the Palma match at Perry in '03 or '04 while using 90gr VLD bullets. Her wind corrections were inside those for my Lapua 155's coming out at 2950FPS. Pretty impressive for a ginch shooting a gasgun and very impressive wind bucking abilities on that projectile.
The AMU and Marine team shooters can do far better on a more consistent basis as they do a mag change to get 40+ rounds downrange in 50 seconds. They'd better be that good seeing that they get paid for it
The point I'd like to make is that even a rummy like myself can hit targets pretty solidly using a sling and iron sights with an M16 at 600 yards. I've tried my hand at 1000 using the M16, but never quite had the setup to be effective. My bullets were running out of gas beyond 900 yards. At 800 & 900yards however, the rifle was deadly if you did everything right. I didn't lose many points at 800 & 900 yards as it was the ballistic equal to my normal bolt-gun.
Regarding Palma. I've shot a few of those matches and they can be interesting. I scored for the gal that won the service rifle end of the Palma match at Perry in '03 or '04 while using 90gr VLD bullets. Her wind corrections were inside those for my Lapua 155's coming out at 2950FPS. Pretty impressive for a ginch shooting a gasgun and very impressive wind bucking abilities on that projectile.
Kodiaz
member
Well I've never served but I hear(mainly from Marines) that Marines shoot much better than the regular Army. But hey what do I know I'm only a civilian.
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