M16 vs. AK47/ 5.56x45 vs. 7.62x39

[Nolo]

Tighter Tolerances = More Accuracy
Looser Tolerances = More Reliability

Don't confuse tolerances with clearances.
What you say is true of clearances, not exactly tolerances (it's a little different with tolerances).
Tolerance is basically a measure of quality control. How different is each of the same part that comes off the assembly line? .0001mm? .001mm? .1mm?
Clearance is the measure of how much space is between moving parts. Some are very tight. Some are very loose. In general, the more space between parts, the more reliable, and the less space, the more accurate.
However, that is not always true, and thus not entirely applicable.
For instance, sometimes super-tight clearances go hand-in-hand with great reliability, as in the Suomi SMG (which could actually create a vacuum in its receiver, the clearances were so tight).
However, loose tolerances always create worse accuracy, and they have no benefits other than ease of manufacture.

 

[benEzra]

Look at how "AK guy" slaps/jerks the trigger when he shoots. It looks like they pulled this guy off the film crew, handed him the AK, and told him to shoot it for the camera. He controls it well in full auto, but jerking the trigger like that when shooting at 200 yards is ridiculous.

My SAR-1 (pretty much a semiauto-only AKM) will keep an entire magazine on an IPSC target at 200 yards. That demonstration was a demonstration of lousy shooting, IMO, not a bad rifle.

dstorm1911 has posted some pics of a clapped-out Title 2 AK with half the rifling worn off that shoots far better than the one in that video.

Just for fun, here's a playing card I shot with my SAR-1 at 50 yards a few weeks ago. Ammo was cheap Wolf. Yes, an AR will do better, but the accuracy isn't nearly as bad as the video in the OP would lead you to believe.

 

[ir3e971]

I have an AR and a MAK 90. This video does not reflect the accuracy of either rifle worth a hoot.

 

[Vegaslaith]

When all is said and done when it comes to AK vs. AR, you know what I think? AKs and ARs work best when used together. Iraqi and Coaliton forces joining forces are much better off side by side than a 'lone AK or AR. United they stand, divided they fall. Just my .02 anyway.

 

[elmerfudd]

I have an AR and a MAK 90. This video does not reflect the accuracy of either rifle worth a hoot.

Exactly. I used to have a MAK90 that shot horribly, but even that rifle would have hit a silhouette every time at 200 yards. In fact, the only centerfire I've got that couldn't hit a silhouette every time at 200 yards is an old Mosin Nagant with a shot out barrel. If you can't hit a silhouette at 200 yards there's either something wrong with the rifle or the shooter.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I never liked the video in the OP. Seems like there is a lot of misinformation on the part of the narrators and it doesn't seem like there was a real effort to make it an fair comparison. Look how the guy shooting the AK just jerks the trigger. It's no wonder that he only put one round on paper.

 

[Ignition Override]

Accuracy of an AK?
It might matter to experienced shooters and rifle connoisseurs, but not to me.

Having stumbled onto two websites by one or more British "international arms" monitoring groups, or such, it was a surprise to read how many tens of thousands of surplus AKs etc were destroyed in eastern Europe since the fall of their governments.

The simple fact that AKs, even M-1 Carbines, Ruger Minis etc might soon be endangered species makes me want to buy several of the most basic surplus foreign combat weapons, but can't justify the money for more redundant rifles now (except for a second MN 44).
We are fortunate that these are all still available.
Pardon my wandering away from the main topic.

 

[sarduy]

Should we have another 9mm vs .45acp debate while were at it?

i vote 9mm

 

[yenchisks]

youtube: (g3 m16 ak47) the ak is all over the place ,can't stay on target.

 

[presidente006]

Most everybody that has posted something here has brought up good points. Specifically, Nolo, when he mentioned trigger squeeze. In the video it clearly shows how as soon as he fired the round he immediately let go of the trigger without following through. Any of you that have shot rifles before as well as pistols know what I mean. Trigger squeeze is just as important as breathing, sight picture, cheek to stock weld and numerous other things. The AK traditionally is a less accurate weapon due to the size of caliber vs. size of weapon. Im NOT saying that center mass can not be achieved but it does take some practice to do so. The 5.56 round of the M-16/M-4 suits the rifle much more than the 7.62 does for the AK-47, 74, SKS and all of its cousins.

Also, when you shoot a rifle in auto mode the rounds will most likely differ in where they land because of all the movement of the weapon system. It is almost impossible to maintain percect sight picture on ANY weapon system while the selector switch is on automatic fire. The same can be said for the M-4s we use in the Army while they are on burst (3 round)

Both rifles, as stated before, have their pros and cons. The M-16/M-4 require ALOT of maintenance. Carbon build up, rust and dirt can and will often cause malfunctions. Yet, the light weight round and its caliber vs. size of weapon makes it a far easier weapon to control. Thus making it easier for the shooter to land rounds more accurately.

While the AK is cheaper to build, and it doesnt require much maintenace. It can be fired with large amounts of rust, dirt and carbon. These are some of the reasons why it is the most popular weapon manufactured in the world. Specifically in 3rd world countries.

Id like to make a suggestion on a reliable weapon. Check out the FNP-90. The caliber is a 5.7mm round and the sights are basically like a magnifying glass. Kind of expensive for a new one but definitely worth it and fun to shoot. Hey!. Uday (Saddam's son used it the day he was killed)

Neckshot5seven, I recommend that you tell your cousin not to advertise that he uses a weapon that was not issued to him. Stuff like that could get him in serious trouble if he's ever caught.

"Rangers Lead the Way"

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

Don't confuse tolerances with clearances.
What you say is true of clearances, not exactly tolerances (it's a little different with tolerances).
Tolerance is basically a measure of quality control. How different is each of the same part that comes off the assembly line? .0001mm? .001mm? .1mm?

Extremely good point, Nolo. For instance, if an AK's bolt carrier rails are of by the tiniest bit, it simply won't work.


As for the video, I am left very unimpressed. That is all I have to say.

 

[Nolo]

When in my high school Government class, a friend of mine commented that he couldn't hit the locker across the hall (maybe 20 feet away) with an AK, that it was that inaccurate.
I told him that, no, he was in fact wrong, and that I had done much more with an AK than that (I went shooting at a 50-foot target with a Yugo, once).
Anyway, this whole anecdote is just to illustrate that there's a lot of fluff and ignorance about what makes an AK behave the way the AK does and what makes the AR behave the way the AR does.
Let me put this out there:
The AK has a reputation for inaccuracy because the users of the AK have, the vast majority of the time been ill-trained peasants who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with any weapon.
The AR has a reputation for unreliability because the users of the AR in Vietnam were told that their rifle didn't need to be cleaned. And so they didn't.
If you don't aim your rifle habitually, it will get a reputation for inaccuracy.
If you don't clean your rifle regularly, it will get a reputation for unreliability.
Anyone who doubts the accuracy of the AK design in skilled hands should go watch what the Finns can do with their rifles.
Or better yet, check out the Spetsnaz.

Extremely good point, Nolo. For instance, if an AK's bolt carrier rails are of by the tiniest bit, it simply won't work.


As for the video, I am left very unimpressed. That is all I have to say.

Don't give me credit. That point comes from Oleg Volk.

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

In that case, Oleg has a very good point.

 

[RP88]

Having stumbled onto two websites by one or more British "international arms" monitoring groups, or such, it was a surprise to read how many tens of thousands of surplus AKs etc were destroyed in eastern Europe since the fall of their governments.

Much of the ex-Com Bloc still uses the AK47. The few that don't use the AK74, and were probably the ones that scrapped their old '47s. And don't worry about AKs going extinct. The AK-10x looks like a nifty gun to have. Maybe it'll truly come state-side for the civvie market one day...

 

[KBintheSLC]

I have seen this video before... it is full of fallacies. I have no problem hitting a 7" steel plate at 300 yards (let alone 200) on a consistent basis. The AK shooters trigger work was terrible, he also had no muzzle brake... hence the ridiculous muzzle rise in full auto. Also, the barrel on that gun was a flimzy POS... the Green Mountain barrel on my Yugo underfolder is much sturdier.

So, yes I agree that the AR is generally more accurate than a crappy AK (a top end AK can be debated). However, calling it a "better" rifle is painfully subjective.

For instance, if an AK's bolt carrier rails are of by the tiniest bit, it simply won't work.

That simply is not true... AK's are a very "loose" design. That is why a lot of the cheap ones are canted, skewed, and otherwise not square... However, they still fire.

 

[45B@cav]

I own a couple of each rifle and I love them both. I am a bit partial to the m16 and it's variants but I am a American Soldier who works on these weapons for the Army. They both have faults and they are superior to each other in some ways. THE GUYS FIRING IN THE VIDEO BOTH NEED TO LEARN HOW TO SHOOT. Both rifles will perform far better with a proper marksman on the trigger.