Another take on the AR vs AK debate

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Davionmaximus

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I have sat back and watched the "fur fly" on this one forever... The classic "Ford vs Chevy" arguments. The Hattfields and the McCoys... :cuss:

The AR crowd stands high on thier hill and shouts "We are more accurate!"

The AK group shouts back... "Maybe, if you don't jam!"


The AR mob yells "we can carry more ammunition!"

The AK camp scoffs and states "You will need to as your can't kill anything!"


The AR society touts "Our gun is lighter weight and more modern!"

The AK nation chuckles and replys "An undernourished third world child can cobble together the pieces of two broken AKs pulled from a mud hole, assemble them in 60 seconds and it will work. Oh... and will never have to oil it...EVER!!"

And that folks is pretty much all you will hear.

Here is my take on the whole thing. To start with I am an AR owner (hears the booing and hissing from the AK side..) That being said I have fired the AK on many occasions. I love the ergo of the AK. The recoil of the 7.62X39 is kind of like the story of the "Home Invasion of the Three Bears" where the perp finds the bed...just right.

Love the conventional sights on the AK. Maybe if you are trained on them, the iron sights on the AR are worth a darn, but I hate em. Maybe that's why most people use aftermarket sights....

The AR is easy to operate. Period. I found the AK to actually be a bit tougher to deal with when it came time to try and hold the bolt open. (Have seen 'em at the range with Bic lighters holding the bolts open.)

Can't stand the AK magazines. AR has that one hands down in my opinion. Mag changes are much easier on the AR.

Some things I have noticed...

AK people LOVE to compare the '47 to the 15. 7.62x39 stopping power. But wouldn't a better comparison be the AK74 vs the AR15. Lets face it folks. The AK74 is the modern replacement(also noted to be more accurate.) 5.45x39 vs 5.56x45. Now that is a comparison.

AR folks usually speak of the AR as "easier to upgrade". I am not sure that is really the case. Before I wrote this I searched around and found that pretty much any upgrade you could ever want for the AK is available. For about the same price as for the AR. Triggers, forends, buttstocks, barrel upgrades, rails to mount your gadgets to. Heck, you could turn your AK into a "Black Rifle" in no time. Probably for less 'cause the AK is STILL half the price of an AR at the guns shows.

The early AR/M16 had a bad reputation as unreliable due to failures in the gas action design. I think it has proven itself through the years to be reliable platform. They now offer a pushrod style upgrade for $500.00 that replaces the gas tube. So I think at this point the "reliability" issue is really a non-issue.

For what it's worth, for the reputation of AK reliability I have seen an AK jam at the gun range. Due to a lack of maint. I know... it was a Unicorn or a flying pig...Unheard of...:what:

And finally.. in closing here is what I wonder. On the basis of "stopping power" why no compare the AR10 (which I own) to the AK47. It was Stoners original design. The military forced the change. .308 vs 7.62x39 is not a comparison. Yeah, they do make a Siaga in .308. I considered one. But have read some not so rave reviews. That being said... it would be interesting
 
My take why not get the best of both worlds cross an Ar with an Ak and just shoot a Daewoo dr 200 or dr 300:D
 
My take on the issue is like my feelings twoard my chidren, one is an honor rool student, he has never been in trouble at school, he cleans his room, but can't put a model car togeather. The other is not the best student, his room stays a mess, trouble is his middle name, but he can disassemble a lawn mower engine and put it back together and it will run, but at the end of the day I could never love one more than the other.
I have two AR's (E-2 rifle & M-4 Carbine) and three AK"s (47, 74, RPK) I get much less aggrevation from the AR's, they are my honor roll students, they are cleaner and nicer and don't give me a bit of trouble. :)
My AK's are a little sloppier, not quite as clean, they are not A+ students but they always try hard and succede, and they don't fail when there is work to be done. :cool:

So when all is said and done I will always love them both the SAME


This is this! It's not something else, it's this!

Don't pull it if you don't plan to use it, and don't use it if you don't plan to kill!

ALWAYS REMEMBER OUR MEN AND WOMEN OVER THERE.
 
in my opinion each is as good as the other except for the ar15 being way more accurate, flatter shooting, lighter weight, can carry more ammo, has better sights, superior ergonomics, and way more aftermarket goodies.

other than that they are the same i guess.
 
You see it in everything.

fill in the blank

I own a _______ car, all others are crap because _________
I own a ________camera, all others are crap because ________
I own a ________ computer, all others crap because __________

and so on and so on

A lot of people really think that what brand you own somehow or another makes you cooler than the other guy/gal. Look how many pay extra just to have some flake's (not PC I know) name who has a really bad fake French accent on their clothes. Sorry back on topic.... Some people never grow out of a constant need to fit in some group and bash the other groups.

AK or AR, I don't care if it works and I do own both and I love both designs, but for different reasons. If the SHTF I would trust either one with my life.
 
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Just remembered I had this on the HDD, but I forget where I got from, it may have be here some time ago so my apologizes to the author if they object to my putting it here.

Stuff you know if you have an AK
Stuff you know if you have an AR
Stuff you know if you have a Mosin Nagant

It works though you have never cleaned it. Ever.
You have $9 per ounce special non-detergent synthetic Teflon infused oil for cleaning.
It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.

You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from inside.
You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from 600 meters.
You can hit the farm from two counties over.

Cheap mags are fun to buy.
Cheap mags melt.
What's a mag?

Your safety can be heard from 300 meters away.
You can silently flip off the safety with your finger on the trigger.
What's a safety?

Your rifle comes with a cheap nylon sling.
Your rifle has a 9 point stealth tactical suspension system.
You rifle has dog collars.

Your bayonet makes a good wire cutter.
Your bayonet is actually a pretty good steak knife.
Your bayonet is longer than your leg.

You can put a .30" hole through 12" of oak, if you can hit it.
You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 30 rounds.
You can knock down everyone else's target with the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.

When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.
When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat.
When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

Recoil is manageable, even fun.
What's recoil?
Recoil is often used to relocated shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.

Your sight adjustment goes to "10", and you've never bothered moving it.
Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of angle.
Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it.

Your rifle can be used by any two bit nation's most illiterate conscripts to fight elite forces worldwide.
Your rifle is used by elite forces worldwide to fight two bit nations' most illiterate conscripts.
Your rifle has fought against itself and won every time.

Your rifle won some revolutions.
Your rifle won the Cold War.
Your rifle won a pole vault event.

You paid $350.
You paid $900.
You paid $59.95.

You buy cheap ammo by the case.
You lovingly reload precision crafted rounds one by one.
You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine.

You can intimidate your foe with the bayonet mounted.
You foes laugh when you mount your bayonet.
You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the river without leaving the comfort of your hole.

Service life, 50 years.
Service life, 40 years.
Service life, 100 years, and counting.

It's easier to buy a new rifle when you want to change cartridge sizes.
You can change cartridge sizes with the push of a couple of pins and a new upper.
You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54r.

You can repair your rifle with a big hammer and a swift kick.
You can repair your rifle by taking it to a certified gunsmith, it's under warranty!
If your rifle breaks, you buy a new one.

You consider it a badge of honor when you get your handguards to burst into flames.
You consider it a badge of honor when you shoot a sub-MOA 5 shot group.
You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the aid of a 2x4.

After a long day the range you relax by watching "Red Dawn".
After a long day at the range you relax by watching "Blackhawk Down".
After a long day at the range you relax by visiting the chiropractor.

After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for a stiff shot of Vodka.
After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for hotdogs and apple pie.
After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for shishkabob.

You can accessorize you rifle with a new muzzle brake or a nice stock set.
Your rifle's accessories are eight times more valuable than your rifle.
Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny lid, but it's buried under an apartment building somewhere in Budapest.

Your rifle's finish is varnish and paint.
Your rifle's finish is Teflon and high tech polymers.
Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.

Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Mikhail Kalashnikov.
Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Eugene Stoner.
You're not sure there WERE cameras to photograph Sergei Mosin.

Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to hold your rifle over your head and shout "Wolverines!"
Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to clear your house, slicing the pie from room to room.
Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to dig a fighting trench in the the yard to sleep in.

There you have it. In the end, it is clear to any open minded inquirer that the Mosin Nagant is the most superior weapon of all time, but the AR and the AK come out as a draw when compared side by side.
 
Enough of this AK vs AR crap!!

I have AR's, I have Mosins, I have AK's and love them all....

I think people are just jealous of those of us who have them all :neener:
 
Just remembered I had this on the HDD, but I forget where I got from
Click to expand...

It came from here: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm


I've owned an AK clone in the past, now I own an AR. I've got tons of respect for both (I love guns, so why hate either :p?), though my preference is for the AR due to its ergonomics / layout.

For the record, my AR has performed flawlessly with Magpul PMAGs. I tried some odd steel GI lookalike mags with a green follower, but the follower would tilt and jam every 20 rounds or so, causing the gun to malfunction. Plus, quality control on these mags (ordered through CDNN) was very spotty, as the deminsions varried so much that one didn't even fit in the magwell :mad:. After switching to PMAGS, blame can clearly be laid on crappy mags 100% for the hiccups I experienced with my AR early on.

I suspect there are similar crappy mags floating around for AKs, which will turn them into a jamo-matic just as readily.
 
Nice write up from the OP. I use to race Quads (4 wheelers)...some said Honda was better, others Yamaha...some would switch brands an do better...or do worse...its what fits you....AR's an AK's are probably the same....I have both, had the AR for a much longer time, it just fits me better, have more faith in it, an my ability with it...maybe if I had the AK first, an carried it in the military, I would feel more comfortable with it....?....it matters only with which one you are better with an suits what your using it for.
 

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LOL ... yeah, but that's pre-"it's cool to act like we're poor 'cause it's the great depression again" thinking. Now you've got to make hard choices and have only one if you want to be politically correct. ;)

Seriously, though, if you follow the AR forum advice you'll end up out $2300+ ($1000ish for the rifle, $500+150+400 for the aimpoint, magnifier, and mounts, $100 for the BUIS, $50 for the tangled webbing, plus half a metric ton of magazines). If you follow the AK advice... well, I'm not sure what the exact prices are nowadays but under a thousand....

That leaves you with a classic question...will you be happier doing $1300 worth of shooting with a cheaper gun, or owning something "perfect" even if you barely have enough money left over to take it to the range. That choice isn't unique to the AR/AK discussion by any means.

Science has an answer, by the way...they just last month released a study.... It turns out that people remember bad experiences far more intensely than they remember either the pain of spending money OR the joy of a good experience... so avoiding the frustrating range day where the gun just doesn't work or everything is jamming up is more important to your overall happiness than saving money OR actually enjoying something positive like a good range day. If you spend all your money on the gun you'll get the joy of having something nice and reduce the risk of a bad range day ('cause you can't afford to go shooting), overall increasing your odds of a happy life.

AR FTW. ;)
 
Davionmaximus said:
AK people LOVE to compare the '47 to the 15. 7.62x39 stopping power. But wouldn't a better comparison be the AK74 vs the AR15. Lets face it folks. The AK74 is the modern replacement(also noted to be more accurate.) 5.45x39 vs 5.56x45. Now that is a comparison.
Click to expand...

Not really. The AR15 design dates back to the late 50s and was designed (among other things) to go up against the AK-47 (at the Eureka! moment of the AR15 design, the AKM was unknown to the west).

The AK74 is nothing more than a AKM recycled for the smaller cartridge. Not a 'new' design at all, just a rechambered old design.
 
I don't speak or understand AR or AK well at all. I saw the thread title and wondered what Arkansas was debating Alaska about.
Click to expand...

How about
AR-5 (22 hornet) vs the AK
AR-7 (22lr) vs the AK
AR-8 (shotgun) vs the AK
AR-24 (9mm handgun) vs the AK

They are ARs too :p
 
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