M1A .308 vs. Beretta Tikka 3 Lite 30.06 bolt action

[CB900F]

Stinger;

What's your definition of long range? Neither platform is going to excel at a thousand yards in comparison to dedicated F-class, bench, or super varminter guns. As for the nay-sayer element concerning the .30-06's ability to conduct business at a thousand, well Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbledon in 1964 with that round in a service Winchester model 70.

As bullet weight rises, the ought-six has more case capacity to take advantage of the higher B/C's of those match bullets. The practical hunting use of match ammunition is nil. It's not designed to deliver good terminal performance on game animals.

Myself, I don't find my T-3 in ought-6 objectionable to shoot at all. But, it's not a bench gun, it's a hunting gun. Nonetheless, if for some odd reason I had to put 40 rounds downrange from a bench with the gun, it wouldn't bother me to do so. I'll also agree with Water-man, the Tikka magazine is perfectly capable, durable in my experience, and works just fine. I do agree that they're a bit expensive, but that's a minor consideration compared to the cost of the gun and glass. I do kinda wonder what that aftermarket trigger guard and magazine affair cost in total with the needed stock work. Not that I'm interested in doing it myself, but wondering how close that particular Tikka is in cost to the M1A.

900F

 

[taliv]

fwiw, i wasn't saying they can't be accurate, etc. i was just saying match quality ammo is harder to find in 3006, compared to 308

still, wouldn't be surprised if somebody has won wimbledon more recently than '64 with a 30.06, but i'd be surprised if it was in the past 20 years. just too many better options these days

 

[MrBorland]

As for the nay-sayer element concerning the .30-06's ability to conduct business at a thousand, well Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbledon in 1964 with that round in a service Winchester model 70.

By coincidence, I just read that chapter in Marine Sniper last night - according to the book, he used a .300 Win Mag for his Wimbledon win.

 

[stinger 327]

Stinger;

What's your definition of long range? Neither platform is going to excel at a thousand yards in comparison to dedicated F-class, bench, or super varminter guns. As for the nay-sayer element concerning the .30-06's ability to conduct business at a thousand, well Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbledon in 1964 with that round in a service Winchester model 70.

As bullet weight rises, the ought-six has more case capacity to take advantage of the higher B/C's of those match bullets. The practical hunting use of match ammunition is nil. It's not designed to deliver good terminal performance on game animals.

Myself, I don't find my T-3 in ought-6 objectionable to shoot at all. But, it's not a bench gun, it's a hunting gun. Nonetheless, if for some odd reason I had to put 40 rounds downrange from a bench with the gun, it wouldn't bother me to do so. I'll also agree with Water-man, the Tikka magazine is perfectly capable, durable in my experience, and works just fine. I do agree that they're a bit expensive, but that's a minor consideration compared to the cost of the gun and glass. I do kinda wonder what that aftermarket trigger guard and magazine affair cost in total with the needed stock work. Not that I'm interested in doing it myself, but wondering how close that particular Tikka is in cost to the M1A.

900F

At least 2-3 times the cost of a M1A. Tikka 3 Lite $600+. M1A $1,500+

 

[stinger 327]

For accuracy at long range I would go with the Tikka given your restrictions on the platform for each. My choice, given the two options is largely based on the rifle, not the caliber. That being said, the long range accuracy of 308 vs .30 06 is hotly debated with the consensus (right or wrong) generally leaning in favor of the 308.

P.S. I would also choose the tikka for long range accuracy in 308 vs the M1A. It's just out of the box more accurate. M1A's can be tuned to be close but it takes tinkering and know how and maybe some luck.

In 30.06 they have 220 grain rounds what is this used for compared to 150 grains?

 

[CB900F]

Stinger;

My question was not the relative cost of the Tikka/M1A, it was what the cost of the Tikka was after the modifications.

The 220 grain bullets are almost always round-nose, with a relatively poor B/C. Therefore the use would tend to be for large and dangerous game. Coastal bears would be my first thought.

900F

 

[stinger 327]

Stinger;

My question was not the relative cost of the Tikka/M1A, it was what the cost of the Tikka was after the modifications.

The 220 grain bullets are almost always round-nose, with a relatively poor B/C. Therefore the use would tend to be for large and dangerous game. Coastal bears would be my first thought.

900F

On the Tikka 3 Lite no modifications. Only additional expense would be a scope maybe something like a Nikon scope.
30.06 has a varied range of bullet weights from 125 to 220 grains.

 

[CB900F]

Stinger;

The Tikka I'm asking the question about is not one you're proposing to buy, it's the one in posts 11 and 16.

900F

 

[stinger 327]

Stinger;

My question was not the relative cost of the Tikka/M1A, it was what the cost of the Tikka was after the modifications.

The 220 grain bullets are almost always round-nose, with a relatively poor B/C. Therefore the use would tend to be for large and dangerous game. Coastal bears would be my first thought.

900F

What is B/C?

 

[CB900F]

Stinger;

Ballistic Coefficient, or B/C, is a number representing the aerodynamic efficiency of a bullet. How "slippery" it is flying through the air. The B/C number can then be used to compare different bullets. For example; bullets of the same weight and diameter, from the same manufacturer, can and will have different B/C's depending on the bullet's intended use.

I'll suggest going to the JBM ballistics site and playing around with the numbers over there. It's a free service and an extremely useful one. If you pick up an old reloading manual from a bullet maker, Speer, Sierra, etc., you'll see what I'm talking about in the first paragraph. An out-of-date manual should be extremely cheap. Using the manual and the JBM program could tie you up for quite some time though, if you find it interesting.

900F

 

[stinger 327]

Stinger;

Ballistic Coefficient, or B/C, is a number representing the aerodynamic efficiency of a bullet. How "slippery" it is flying through the air. The B/C number can then be used to compare different bullets. For example; bullets of the same weight and diameter, from the same manufacturer, can and will have different B/C's depending on the bullet's intended use.

I'll suggest going to the JBM ballistics site and playing around with the numbers over there. It's a free service and an extremely useful one. If you pick up an old reloading manual from a bullet maker, Speer, Sierra, etc., you'll see what I'm talking about in the first paragraph. An out-of-date manual should be extremely cheap. Using the manual and the JBM program could tie you up for quite some time though, if you find it interesting.

900F

thanks..for a second there I thought you were referring to the Nikon scope feature BDC bullet drop compensator

 

[d2wing]

I have a Tikka T3 and I cannot say enough about how much I like it. .6 MOA or better every group. Mine is in 7-08. That is with Hornaday Whitetail ammo.
On the other hand with an M-14 I have also shot under MOA. However from what I understand that must be a fluke as they say the M1A takes special attention to be that accurate. For hunting and target shooting it will be hard to beat the Tikka. Lighter, nice handling, well made and reliable. And probably much more accurate.
The M 1A will give faster follow up shots and more capacity and will also have much milder recoil. Nothing wrong with either .308 or 30-06. Both are great rounds. .308 has less recoil and usually more accurate. The 30-06 has a much power as you will ever need. But they are more alike than different.

 

[Sunray]

"...a lot more choices in bullet weight and I believe 30-06 is easier to find than .308..." Nope. Same bullets, but the '06 can go a bit heavier. Not enough to make any difference though. Only difference is the case length and about 100 fps in velocity with like bullet weights. And .308 is everywhere.
A semi-auto and bolt action are a lot different though. Your Tikka Lite is purely a hunting rifle. Not really suited to long range target shooting. Mind you, a standard M1A is also a hunting rifle and not really suited to long range target shooting. You can buy an M1A that is a target rifle. You cannot buy a Tikka Lite target rifle.
Mags for an AR aren't disposable unless it's an M-16 and your Uncle Sam is providing 'em.
Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbledon in 1965.

 

[stinger 327]

I have a Tikka T3 and I cannot say enough about how much I like it. .6 MOA or better every group. Mine is in 7-08. That is with Hornaday Whitetail ammo.
On the other hand with an M-14 I have also shot under MOA. However from what I understand that must be a fluke as they say the M1A takes special attention to be that accurate. For hunting and target shooting it will be hard to beat the Tikka. Lighter, nice handling, well made and reliable. And probably much more accurate.
The M 1A will give faster follow up shots and more capacity and will also have much milder recoil. Nothing wrong with either .308 or 30-06. Both are great rounds. .308 has less recoil and usually more accurate. The 30-06 has a much power as you will ever need. But they are more alike than different.

Made in Finland.

 

[stinger 327]

"...a lot more choices in bullet weight and I believe 30-06 is easier to find than .308..." Nope. Same bullets, but the '06 can go a bit heavier. Not enough to make any difference though. Only difference is the case length and about 100 fps in velocity with like bullet weights. And .308 is everywhere.
A semi-auto and bolt action are a lot different though. Your Tikka Lite is purely a hunting rifle. Not really suited to long range target shooting. Mind you, a standard M1A is also a hunting rifle and not really suited to long range target shooting. You can buy an M1A that is a target rifle. You cannot buy a Tikka Lite target rifle.
Mags for an AR aren't disposable unless it's an M-16 and your Uncle Sam is providing 'em.
Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbledon in 1965.

Bullet weight on 30.06 125 grains to 220 grains.

 

[CB900F]

Stinger;

Now if you want a Tikka that is suitable for extended ranges, with a high degree of accuracy, and a higher price of course, look at the Super Varmint. It's available in .30-06, though I'd buy it in 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser for distance work.

If you go to the Tikka USA website you can view all the models, many of them with wood stocks. You want stainless? Fluted barrels? Left hand bolts? All shown there.

900F

 

[eastbank]

the difference between a 190gr shot in a 308-2400fps drop at 500yds-77.6" and a 3006-2700fps drop at 500yds-57.1" in the hornady loading manual is 300fps. at a 1000yds its much greater. you just can,t compare the tikka bolt action in any caliber with what the m-14-m1a was built for. as a hunting rifle the tikka is top shelf as a sniper it would work, mass attack the tikka would not be very good. the m14-m1a will work as a hunting rifle, be a very good sniper and excell in a mass attack. different rifles for different jobs. ask your self what rifle you would want for long walking hunt? and then ask your self what rifle you would want to snipe with(no movement) and what rifle you would want faced with 5-8 men comming in your direction. a better test would be tikka vs win,rem,sav,sako ect in the same calibers.eastbank

 

[stinger 327]

Stinger;

Now if you want a Tikka that is suitable for extended ranges, with a high degree of accuracy, and a higher price of course, look at the Super Varmint. It's available in .30-06, though I'd buy it in 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser for distance work.

If you go to the Tikka USA website you can view all the models, many of them with wood stocks. You want stainless? Fluted barrels? Left hand bolts? All shown there.

900F

I will have to check this one out.

 

[d2wing]

I don't get why you would think the Tikka is not a long range rifle. If they all shot like mine. Under .6 MOA, I would think that is good accuracy. Not a bench rest rifle, but with good optics, a good shooter and decent conditions you can get out there as well as any other production rifle. That is with a cheaper scope and low priced factory ammo, Hornaday. Accuracy doesn't magically go away beyond 100 yards if your rifle doesn't say target on it.

 

[rswartsell]

I have owned both (however the Tikka T3 Lite is 7mm 08). IF you are comparing the base M1A from Springfield Armory, the Tikka for me was without question the more accurate right out of the box, at about 1/2 the price. For considerably more $ you can get a National Match SA M1A and probably even then spend some more to get to the full accuracy potential of the platform.

The reason some do is to have a National Match grade military/combat rifle. Semi auto with a greatly larger capacity box magazine. If that is what you want, you will have to pay the toll to get there. If a highly accurate reasonable cost sporter will do, it's the Tikka in a walk.

Apples and oranges really. Start by defining what you want more specifically and you will be far more efficient in getting there.

P.S. You would need to be an extremely accomplished long range shooter to realize the difference in .308, 7mm 08 and 30.06. If the platforms achieve comparable accuracy it is the cartridge (and the specific bullet/load) that will be the difference.

 

[stinger 327]

I have owned both (however the Tikka T3 Lite is 7mm 08). IF you are comparing the base M1A from Springfield Armory, the Tikka for me was without question the more accurate right out of the box, at about 1/2 the price. For considerably more $ you can get a National Match SA M1A and probably even then spend some more to get to the full accuracy potential of the platform.

The reason some do is to have a National Match grade military/combat rifle. Semi auto with a greatly larger capacity box magazine. If that is what you want, you will have to pay the toll to get there. If a highly accurate reasonable cost sporter will do, it's the Tikka in a walk.

Apples and oranges really. Start by defining what you want more specifically and you will be far more efficient in getting there.

P.S. You would need to be an extremely accomplished long range shooter to realize the difference in .308, 7mm 08 and 30.06. If the platforms achieve comparable accuracy it is the cartridge (and the specific bullet/load) that will be the difference.

You are correct the price of a M1A is about 2-3+ times as much as a Tikka 3 Lite 30.06.
M1A is pricey. The Mini-14 semi auto is also about half the price of M1A and of course isn't as accurate but cheaper to shoot with .223 or 5.56.

 

[stinger 327]

I don't get why you would think the Tikka is not a long range rifle. If they all shot like mine. Under .6 MOA, I would think that is good accuracy. Not a bench rest rifle, but with good optics, a good shooter and decent conditions you can get out there as well as any other production rifle. That is with a cheaper scope and low priced factory ammo, Hornaday. Accuracy doesn't magically go away beyond 100 yards if your rifle doesn't say target on it.

What does MOA mean?

 

[Water-Man]

http://www.tikkashooters.com/public_html/

Here's a site you may be interested in. Also a Tikka 'Custom Shop'.

 

[CB900F]

Stinger;

A circle has 360 degrees. Each is further separated into minutes, 60 to each degree. From center point to distance, spread can be measured in Minute Of Angle. For our purposes, the center point is the muzzle of the gun and the distance is 100 yards. MOA at 100 yards is very slightly over one inch. Nobody cares about the very small difference so to most of us a gun that shoots MOA is capable of consistent 1 inch groups at 100 yards. Therefore, in the above post, he's saying that his gun will consistently shoot groups sized to six-tenths of an inch at 100 yards. They may range from say: .572" to .638", but average at something in the .6's.

900F

 

[stinger 327]

http://www.tikkashooters.com/public_html/

Here's a site you may be interested in. Also a Tikka 'Custom Shop'.

Definitely a candy store
Thanks