M44 Mosin Nagant... need a little info please

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BigSlick

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Can someone give me a short course in M44 Mosin Nagants ?

I'm in the market for one, and several are available from different sources.

I am a little wary of imported battle rifles of unknown origin, but the M44's I've shot are a ton of fun and cheap to boot from what I'm told.

When buying, are there any to avoid ?

Any features, year of manufacture or country of origin preferred ?

How are they to reload for ? Are components available, or is everything out there in 7.62x54 berdan, steel case ?

I'm looking for a nice shooter, pedigree isn't important.

Thanks for the help ;)

'Slick
 
Only ones I'd avoid are the ones that have been counterbored, but that's just personal opinion. You're going to run a gamut of rifles either way. They're plentiful and in a wide spectrum of conditions. If you want a good accuracy shooter I'd say try to find a Finn. Just a regular truck gun, find one of the 80-100 dollar jobs on one of the internet sites.

As far as ammo, for right now the only reason I could see reloading is for accuracy/hunting. 7.62x54r is cheap (for the moment) and you can pick up cans for pretty cheap. But if you do reload the brass can be found, it uses a .311 bullet IIRC (slug the bore for a completely accurate measurement)

All said and done try to find one with matching numbers or arsenal rework stamps. www.7.62x54r.net can give you some great pictures of those. Look down the bore and try to find one that's not pitted or rusty. Take a bullet or gauge with you to test... General fire-arms inspection stuff. If you can find a good stock, great, but don't go by that alone. Comrade Stalin wanted these pushed out as fast as possible, not as pretty as could be

Good luck, and start saving penny's, the Mosins are addicting (I've got 2 lol)
 
wow . where to begin

Can someone give me a short course in M44 Mosin Nagants ?

I'm in the market for one, and several are available from different sources.

I am a little wary of imported battle rifles of unknown origin, but the M44's I've shot are a ton of fun and cheap to boot from what I'm told.

When buying, are there any to avoid ?

as shooters? no. just be sure to check the rifleing . obiously all matching is perfered. arsenal refurbs or counterbore are not a bad nessiarily thing for shooters. post war VS war era rifles is an interesting debate. post war some ofthe short cuts were reversed. so post war rifles will have a few more little changes.


Any features, year of manufacture or country of origin preferred ?
Polish models are a good buy, and normaly UNDER priced. Chinese, Russian, Romainian etc all seem to be well built. aside from the rare years/ feature combos. theres nothing else a begining should know about it. [/quote]

keep an eye out for an " [SA] " stamp. that means it was a finnish capture.
http://www.7.62x54r.com/MosinID/SA.jpg
and an MO Stamp. that means it "Ministerstvo Oborony" or Ministry of Defense.
http://www.7.62x54r.com/MosinID/MO2.jpg

if you had two consecutive M44's one with one of the above marks, and one with out. the former is worth probibly atleas twice that of the latter


How are they to reload for ? Are components available, or is everything out there in 7.62x54 berdan, steel case ?

I'm looking for a nice shooter, pedigree isn't important.

all the stuffs out there. most mosins use a .311 bullet. most surplus is not reloadable but almost all of the commercial ( privi partisan is good, cheap and reloadable)
 
Buy an unissued rifle if you can find one- you'll know right away when you see one by looking down the bore. An unissued rifle will be mirror bright on the inside, while used M44s will have varying degrees of gray and pitting.

The only M44 I have is Romanian with a badly pitted bore. I bought it because the price seemed right ($35), for better or for worse, it completely soured me on M44s as it can't keep 5 shots on a sheet of typing paper beyong 25 yards. I have a rearsenalled and counterbored Russian M38 that doesn't shoot a whole lot better. I could only reccommend a mosin carbine that has a brand new barrel on it.
 
M-44

check your local pawnshop i got a good deal on mine.
I paid $51 bucks it's real nice the only things i bought for it is a compensator from E-BAY for $10 dollers and a sling all i need now is some striperclips and a ammo pouch.
I realy like my mosin nagant rifle,at the shooting range i can hit a steel target at 300 yard's with it.of course i used wolf ammo you can feel and see the difrence with surplus ammo,plus you really have to clean your barrel with surplus ammo.
a buddy of mine showed me to pour windex with vineger down the barrel when done shooting and drying it and then oiling the barrel.
that surplus ammo is real corrosive and that wolf ammo is going up in price about $12 bucks a box.
well happy shooting and good luck.
 
The M-44 was designed not as a carbine version of the Mosin but as a full replacement for the 91/30. The Soviets made them in large numbers and they saw service during the brutal closing campaigns of the war. Millions were made by the USSR. Many more were made by Eastern Block nations. The Chinese and I believe the North Koreans also made a large number of their own. They saw service in Korea and Vietnam, and are still in use today as parade arms in Afghanistan and probably some other places as well. The Hungarians and East Germans also made knockoffs of their own, and most of these have been sold as surplus.

Here's Tuco's writeup:
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Russian-M44-Carbine.asp

The very best of the M-44's are the Poles. They were made in pretty small numbers for somewhat mysterious purposes and don't seem to have been used very much. Many are in mint condition. Some of these are phenomenal shooters, even producing 1MOA groups.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/global mosin nagants/Polish-M44.asp

An experienced Mosin addict can quickly tell the difference between a Pole and an inferior M-44. The Pole is lighter in hand and balances better. The wood to metal fit is much more exacting.

If you see an [SA] on it, you have a phenomenal find. By the time they came into circulation the Continuation War was wrapping up. Though apparently some were captured and stamped into the arsenal, these would look like hell and might very well be hiding in the general population.
 
he very best of the M-44's are the Poles. They were made in pretty small numbers for somewhat mysterious purposes and don't seem to have been used very much
A German immigrant that I used to shoot with occasionally told me that the Polish Government under Soviet rule was somewhat schizophrenic- They made the M44s in case they were invaded, but then decided that it wouldn't be a good idea to give them to anyone or allow anyone to train with them and locked them away because their citizens have historically been troublemakers:D
 
my M44 was in excellent condition when I bought it, barrel has been counterbored (indicated by the muzzle being quite a bit larger than it should be and with a smaller diameter about half an inch deep inside the barrel)

It shoots absolutely flawlessly, never had a misfire, accuracy is pretty darn decent @ 200 yards which is the farthest I've been able to shoot so far. It's durability is top notch AFAICT. I've put over 1800rds through it in a little over 2 months, and it pretty rapidly became my favorite rifle I've ever owned (including my AK, which is the first firearm I ever directly bought and purchased with my own money)

That's kinda on a scale now, though.. After trekking through the woods with my m44 strapped to my back and 100rds of x54r in various different pockets vs my AK with a folding stock, 10 loaded mags in a couple of mag pouches and one in the rifle itself, and with the oh so admirable EOTech that makes the AK even more enjoyable I'm having difficulties deciding which one is REALLY my favorite rifle.

The bayonette on the rifle kinda turned me off initially, but after doing a 2 day field test in some rather crappy conditions, it did turn out to be a nifty little gadget. I tested it's strength by stabbing a refridgerator that was dumped on my property over and over again. Poked through that like a hot nail through butter! Also picked the fridge up with the bayonette and it never showed even the slightest temptation to give up and break.

Got some "real world" use out of it too when repositioning the corpse of a coyote I shot with it. If anyone here has experience with dead coyotes.. well, I'm sure we can all agree that they stink far worse than we'd like them too, and the matted down greasy nasty fur they have leaves a very distinct and quite frankly.. repulsive odor on your hands when you try to carry them somewhere.

solution to all those problems though is a quick mounting of the bayonette, a nice jab with the rifle, then a good brace and a quick walk to the nearest creek and a rub down of the bayonette with rubbing alcohol followed by hoppes #9 for fragrance and a little oil to prevent rust =)


for 50-150$ the m44 is a very acceptable choice in a rifle. Huge punch from the round itself, lots of nifty uses for it aside from blowing holes in things, it's so simple to work on even the most novice user could master it's mechanics in little more than 10 minutes of inspection.

not to mention ammo is cheap, stripper clips are cheap and not even all that necessary, it has a comfortable weight and a unique but comfortable balance when you get used to it.

no complaints from me!


Some solid facts though -

at the range, the m44 is outstandingly more fun to shoot than the AK for extended periods of time, especially at places that don't allow steel cased ammo (as is the case at the only outdoor range within 80 miles of me)

Cheaper to shoot too, + you get that "wow what the hell was that?" look from pretty much anyone there.


Hiking in the woods... It's a toss up between my AK and my m44. They both were enjoyable to carry on my 30 mile trekk through rain and mud, up and down "mountains" (more like big hills, but they're actually recognized as mountains for whatever reason)
 
BYW: Counter bored Mosin Nagants are not less accurate then original bore rifles. In fact they may be a bit more accurate as the new crown is freshly cut and not exposed like an original crowned rifle.

M44's are nice, but the M38 is lighter and better balanced, ie no bayo on the right side of the rifle.

Enjoy the rifle, just it alot and clean apporpriately for the corrosive ammo that is out there.
 
The only thing I'll throw in that hasn't been said, is that Graf's sells unprimed 7.62x54R brass.

That, and if you hunt with it and are within 30 yds of the deer, the fireball will roast it too. :D
 
That, and if you hunt with it and are within 30 yds of the deer, the fireball will roast it too.

LMAO!! :D :D

And, hopefully, won't start a forest fire. I absolutely love that about M-44's. I find the M-44 particularly useful when I get some guy next to me on the range aimlessly seeing how fast he can pull the trigger on his AR and raining hot brass on me. A few shots from the M-44 usually has him looking for a quieter part of the firing line where he isn't getting his eyebrows charred off. :neener: :D
 
Mike you are so right! Nothing says BOOM-STICK like a m44! BigSlick if your not particular on pedigree as you say you can still find excellent factory refurbished Russian models for $125-150 , maybe less if you order direct but its best to get hands on with them I think. One distributors description of hand select may be far different than another. Mine had the most beautiful deep bluing and super sharp bore . I weeded through about two dozen to pick it out from my local Mosin guys shop and got it for $ 130. The stock was in good shape with no cracks and just needed a bit of cleaning up. The poles I have seen are going for $20 -35 more but have yet to see any in what I would call good condition. Good luck!
 
One more thought . I had heard it before and its true. They are much more accurate when firing with bayonet extended. Barrel harmonics I'm told. Maybe with the counter balanced ones that dosent apply but it sure does with mine.
 
marking on barrel

I picked up my M44 today at a gun show. it is an Izzy from 1948. All four serial numbers match. The bore looks brand new, after running some bore cleaner and a mop through it I took it out to shoot.

There were several dealers selling them in range from 99.00 to the 139.00 i paid. i looked at the less expensive ones and was not too sure about quality. Thought I would walk around some more and see what else i might find. I am glad I did. I found this Russian 1948 model and it was night and day difference. All of the others I have ever seen have a dark to very dark stained stock. this one the color was between blonde and orange. Kind of glows in sunlight. I asked to look down the bore and when I did it looked as new as any rifle i have ever seen. Basically after cleaning it up it the rifle looks brand new albeit near 60 years old.

one question I have is could this rifle have been re-barreled? The four places where serial numbers are supposed to be all match and are stamped not penciled but on the muzzle end of the barrel left side just below the bayonet bracket it has words that read "M44 Russian 7.62x54m". I thought it odd that the word Russian was written in english.

I could care less if collectable wise it is less desirable or whatever but I am curious about that marking. all other markings are original to the 1948 time.

I had never seen one shot or heard one before. It might be the loudest gun I have been around. The trigger has an ungodly long pull on it. It seems like it will not go bang and then all the sudden you hit the release spot and it goes off with a big big bang. I loved it. Recoil kept me to shooting it only 30 rounds ( I have tendonitis or old age of the shoulder or something). Anyway 30 rounds at one shooting was enough for me.

And from growing up during the Cold War it is weird to own a rifle with a Cycle and Hammer logo on it.
 
IM283,

I believe that was Century Arms International (CAI) that did the muzzle markings. I have a Romanian M-44 with similar markings. It's my truck gun, and a fine truck gun it is too. These rifles fairly scream STOUT!

BTW, Welcome to the wonderful world of Mosins! I hear you about it being weird owning a rifle with the sickle and hammer stamped on it as my latest M-44 is a Russian in nearly immaculate shape. I grew up during the Cold War too. Did you ever have to do those In-case-of-Nuclear-Attack drills in school? Ahhh, good times... :)
 
My 1948 Russian M44 is a really nice spotless version. Maybe because in 1948 there wasn't a shooting war going on.
I have a Hungarian M44 made in 1953 that has the best fit and finish I've ever seen on a Mosin

These two pictures have made the rounds, but this is the main reason to get a M44 or M38 Mosin

cid_X.jpg

2.jpg

ZM
 
[I believe that was Century Arms International (CAI) that did the muzzle markings]

On the end of the barrel just below the sight is the CAI ST ALM marking.
The marking I referred to is just below the bayonet bracket. The M44 RUSSIAN stamp appears much newer. of all the stampings on this rifle the M44 RUSSIAN just seems different.

Personally i could care less if it is re-barreled (but still want to know)as it ought to last longer and shoot straighter. Shot groups were all within a five inch circle but were high and left. I blame me for the placement and I think they will get better with more familiarity with this rifle.

For what it is worth the guy behind the table at the gun show said he did not think it had been shot, and we all know that no lies are told at gun shows.;)

Definetly remember safety drills in case the big one was coming. I felt safer then.
 
If all the serial numbers that were stamped match, then it's a very good bet it's the original barrel. I don't know why Century felt the need to electro-pencil that info near the muzzle. The hammer and sickle stamp on the receiver is pretty much a dead giveaway as to country of origin. :D

I pondered that myself, but, Century sometimes does things that leave one scratching their head and asking "***?!".

If your groups are shooting high left, that happens to me when I shoot with the bayonet folded. I just took the bayo off and re-sighted the rifle. I currently have little need for a bayonet mounted on my truck gun anyway.

Then again, it could come in handy for poking holes in the tires of that idiot that cuts you off in traffic and nearly causes you to crash out then flips you off. :D :D :D :D

On second thought...naahhh!

ZM,

Now those pics are the very thing that makes these rifles soooo fun.
 
people talk about drifting the sight. I am reluctant to try that even when i am ssured it is easy and can't hurt anything. I have only put 30 rounds through it and with more practice the target might get easier to hit in the center.

I have learned a lot about the M44 over the last two days thanks to this site and a couple of others. And at least i can identify where it comes from.

I saw a site today that showed all the importer's markings. The Century Arms marking in the examples were not exactley that same as mine but very close. Those marking have no bearing on whether the gun was re-barreled or not. I have no way of telling if it was, and it matters not to me anyway. The gun looks brand new, like it was never fired until I got a hold of it. If I take care of it my grandson might be able to give it to his grandson someday. Good enough for me for $129.
 
Only ones I'd avoid are the ones that have been counterbored

Is this because it deminishes value,

I have an M44 that is counter bored. It will hold 3MOA with Albanian and Bulgarian surplus. Pretty accurate for $100

It's loud, it's fun, it's CHEAP, and it's loud.

What more do ya need...:neener:
 
Nahh, I don't know if it decreases the value or not, I just never went for them from a cosmetic standpoint.

Dry Firing, won't necessarily hurt it every so often. But if you mean to just de-cock you'd be much better off cycling the bolt and then when relocking it to the closed position holding the trigger back. Close the bolt slowly and it will be closed bolt on an un-tensioned firing spring.
 
The M44 is the one I DON'T have. I have a 1943 Izzy mismatched, counterbored, rearsenalled M38, and it will hold 6 inches at 100 yards with surplus ammo, or 3 inches with Wolf. I haven't started experimenting with this one with handloads, as the 91/30 seems to be more accurate right now,but I have some good loads I am going to try.
Handloading for the 7.62x54R is no harder than any other rifle caliber. Brass is available, either as new from Grafs, or buy brass Prvi Partisan or Wolf Gold, and recycle.:cool:
Slugging the bore is a must. I use the Hornady 303 .312 dia 150gr Interlock Soft Point, for good accruacy in the 91/30, gotta see what I can do with the M38.

8584990-R1-050-23A.gif
 
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