m77/357 effective range

[bubba the roach]

okay say you have just went out and bought a Ruger M77 chambered in .357mag. Handloading a spizter type bullet, could you get results out to 250yds or am I just wishful posting.

Thanks
Bubba

 

[Abel]

Maybe you could figure the trajectory and hit some steel targets with it. What do you want it for?

 

[Texan Scott]

Caveat: i have no experience with bolt actions in general or the 77/357 in particular. My experience is with lever-action carbines. Still, a 16-20" barrel for revolver cartridges. If you're talking about ringing steel plates, i've NO idea... why would you? but why not....
Hunting? NO. Personally, with a .357 I wouldn't attempt a 100-yd shot on the smallest deer imaginable. Others may disagree; somebody might've taken an axis at 100yds or something... but 250 is a no-go. your trajectory would be so arched that mis-estimating the range by a few yards would have you missing cleanly, and IF you hit, your KE will almost certainly NOT be adequate to do more than maim.
For a .357 carbine, try sighting in at 75 yds and limiting yourself to 50 unless the shot is SUPERB. (ADDED: i am assuming here what i'd do: standard 158gr JSP, off the shelf (many brands) at the usual 1235 fps (4-inch revolver) getting something between 1600-1700fps in a carbine. 75yd zero gives a hit an inch high or less between about 25 and 75 yds with a scoped carbine)
I wouldn't take a 250yd shot with a 30-30, much less 357.
(usual caveats: free advice- take it for what it's worth, your mileage may vary, offer not good in all areas, see store for details.)

 

[Kachok]

No, 250yds is far beyond the limits of the 357 even with spritzer bullets, I would step up to a real rifle caliber for those ranges. Even if you could cleanly kill at those ranges you would be dealing with over 4 feet of bullet drop at 250yds.

 

[ECVMatt]

You would get some good results with the Hornady Leverevolution bullets. I shoot out in the desert a lot and can shoot as far as I can see. I shoot my Winchester 94 Trapper .357 at some pretty far targets. Once you get the hold over it is surprisingly easy to get hits. However I am only shooting a targets. I would never shoot that far at an animal. If you are shooting for fun, then you might be surprised to see how far you can hit. If you are shooting at game, then you will most likely be disappointed.

 

[riomedinamike]

I bought my first Marlin 1894 in .357 mag in the late 70's/early 80's, and have shot lots of small Texas Hill Country whitetail, and more recently the much bigger Axis deer.

But, the Axis are shot with 180 gr hardcast handloads to get the penetration needed, and I am limited by terrain, cedar trees, and ability with iron sights to keep those shots under 100 yards.

I just obtained a Ruger 77/357 (to add to my 77/44) and although it can be scoped easily to make the 250 yard shot, I won't be trying it on a game animal, as there really is not enough remaining velocity/energy to fairly and reliably take game humanely at that range.

I consider any 357 rifle, even with increased velocity, a 150 yard and under rifle, and it works very well within those parameters and limits.

For fun shooting at steel targets, anything goes.

 

[Girodin]

The 140 grain lever evolution load claims to do 1850 FPS or so from an 18" rifle. The lever evolution round only has a ballistic coefficient of .160. A 158 grain hollow point has a BC of .203 or so. Buffalo Bore claims to push a 158 grain bullet 2153 fps (my reloading book lists max loads at 1550 fps). The BB 158 grain load, as advertised, would hit 21.12" low at 250 yards. Whereas that load would produce 1626 ft lbs at the muzzle it only has 650 ft lbs left at 250. However, that is more than many 158 grain loads make from the muzzle of a 4" revolver. So a really tuned up 357 load out of a rifle can get to the very low end of 30-30 loads.

In theory taking deer at 250 with a such a load is doable. However, most folks have absolutely no business even trying it, and a real rifle round would be much better.

I don't know what kind of spitzer bullet could be loaded that might improve the BC. A 180 grain .358 Barnes triple shock x rifle bullet has a BC of .295, not an insignificant increase. If one could use a bullet with that BC and get it going 1750 (which I think is reasonable based on some loads I've seen for 180 bullets from 357 mag rifles) it wouldn't offer much improvement over the 158 grain BB load. If there was some 158 grain load that got the claimed BB velocity with a better BC it would do a bit better but still be out shined by 30-30 loads You can punch the numbers into readily available ballistic software and play around with them. A 30-30 is less than ideal for 250 yard shots on game. Honestly, for most people, 250 yards is probably the limit of what they should shoot even with a much more powerful, flatter shooting cartridge.

In sum, I think on paper the answer for living game is yes, however I wouldn't try it and would advise against others trying as well. If one is going to take 250 yard shots on game then one should use a different gun. I feel like my 357 rifle is a 150 yard and in gun, preferably inside of 100. If one is just shooting targets then there is no harm on really pushing the distance. I've seen people lob 45-70 shots way out there.

 

[bubba the roach]

Im not thinking of hunting animals out to that range by no means. Was just thinking about maybe the two legged kind if needs be. A wound is a wound to thinking prey

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I can stretch my .44mag carbine out to 200 yards. I would consider MAYBE 175 to be "effective." 200 yards is towards the beginning of a steep decline in trajectory. However, I would have to guess that the .357 carbines should be able to go a little further. They should be able to do 250 yards, maybe stretch it to 300.

But I do agree with the other posters that these distances/performances are not good enough for hunting. I wouldn't attempt anything with my .44mag beyond 200, but also probably wouldn't attempt anything beyond 150-175 (what I have determined as "effective"). And honestly, I couldn't tell you how a .357mag would perform against mid/large game... I'm assuming less effective than the .44mag.

 

[ECVMatt]

BTR- I would not want to stand in front of a guy who knew how to shoot a .357 at that range. I would be willing to bet that you could put a few holes in them with relative ease. I know there are better choices, but not everyone wants to have lots of different guns and the .357 works well in both handguns and carbines. This is an interesting thread. Next time I head to the desert with my .357 I will bring a human sized target and see what happens.

 

[Girodin]

Well for defensive work the round would certainly be carrying enough energy to do damage. I think the bigger issue for most folks would be that as the distance gets out that far the round is really dropping, nearly feet below POA, assuming a 100 yard zero, drift is significant as well.

I think the shooters ability to quickly and reasonably accurately range the distance and read the wind and correct for them would be limiting for most people.

Of course all this skirts the issue of the need to fire defensively at a person 250 yards away is probably a very rare occurrence. I do not think it is absolutely outside the realm of possibility. Take for example areas near the border. I read a published story of a property owner cleaning crash off his land on the border in AZ, being fired upon (10-15x) by a man in a distant vehicle. Presumably a drug runner or coyote. Someone with the property owner returned fire with an M1A. Also, in my area marijuana grows or even rural meth labs are happened upon by people every year.

Of course from the type of threat I would need to shoot back at 250 yards away I'd much rather have something besides a .357 bolt gun.

 

[Abel]

Im not thinking of hunting animals out to that range by no means. Was just thinking about maybe the two legged kind if needs be. A wound is a wound to thinking prey

Look for another rifle then. If you are in a situation where you need to shoot at a person at 200+ yards, then a rifle chambered in 357 is a sorry choice. When your life is on the line, you don't want to be attempting to remember trajectory and guessing if your bullet had enough tail on it to puncture skin. Go with a 223 or a 308 or a 30-06.

 

[Texan Scott]

Honestly, if someone was 250 yds away, i'd figure they weren't my problem. Most people, even most trained service members in my experience, can't hit a standing man at 250 yds more than about 1 shot in 3 in a calm moment; i'd just run sideways to the nearest solid object big enough to hunker down behind. Barring that, just lie down flat. If i lived anywhere i thought that was a real possibility, though, i'd want an M1A or something in my truck. Now, if you're asking because you DID run out and buy a 77/357, lemme know when you're tired of it and need a downpayment on that M1A. Then, i'll shoot deer up close, and you can plink at 250 yd 'coyotes' of any kind.

 

[doc2rn]

I have a Marlin 1894 in .357 and I have to agree 147 yds is about the max I have been able to coax out of it and get a clean shot. It did drop the yote though.

Anything over 200 yds and I instantly go with the Weatherby in 30-06!

 

[AK103K]

Honestly, if someone was 250 yds away, i'd figure they weren't my problem. Most people, even most trained service members in my experience, can't hit a standing man at 250 yds more than about 1 shot in 3 in a calm moment....

Must be Army shooters, 250 is close range to a Marine.

Seriously though, 200 yards is the closest target, and offhand string in high power. If you cant hit a man sized target at 200 yards offhand, youre not much of a shooter.

I have a 77/357. At 50 yards from a rest, it will shoot quarter sized groups, at 100, they open up to about fist sized groups. Thats using a 125 grain JHP load it likes. So far, mine seems to like the 125's the best, and it is picky.

Personally, I wouldnt shoot past 100 yards at a critter with it, and 50 would be my choice.

 

[Abel]

I have a 77/357. At 50 yards from a rest, it will shoot quarter sized groups, at 100, they open up to about fist sized groups. Thats using a 125 grain JHP load it likes. So far, mine seems to like the 125's the best, and it is picky.

Personally, I wouldnt shoot past 100 yards at a critter with it, and 50 would be my choice.

It seems like its more like a powerful crossbow! I think I'll stick with the ol' treinta-treinta (aka the 7.62x51R) and keep the 357 parked down at the local gun shop.

 

[Haxby]

okay say you have just went out and bought a Ruger M77 chambered in .357mag.

Then, say it turns out it's accurate to hit something 250 yards out. Then, say you can get 1350 fps MV with a Hornady 200 SP. You still have 450 fp of energy at 250 yards. Then, you take a 3-9 scope with a BDC or ballistic plex or whatever reticule, and you turn it to about 4X. You should be able to find holdover points that work to 250 yards.

 

[115grfmj]

Sight in at 100yds 3" high.

the round (158 gr jsp s&b) doesn't cross the line of sight until it crosses 171 yards.....i.e it's a dead on hold. Most people are surprised by how flat the .357 from a rifle can shoot, relatively speaking. Also Your not really getting down to handgun velocity until about 150 yards ( and most people will tell you the .357 from a HANDGUN is suitable for whitetail to at least fifty yards) , IIRC, from my own chrony work. Personally I wouldn't hestitate to take deer at that range........as always though if you can't land your rounds in the right spot........ I personally get 3" groups (from a rest with aperature sights, s&b ammo) with my 1894c at 100yds, a scope might improve that a bit.