Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Made Common Citizens Think

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by def4pos8, Jul 12, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. def4pos8

    def4pos8 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    560
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    I work as an armed guard, making sure that a bunch of nice folks go home in one piece after a shift. Since I'm "The Gun Guy", more than one of 'em has asked my opinion of the Heller decision.

    I start my response by stating that we were one vote shy of causing the first armed rebellion in this country in 150 years.

    This tends to stun the listener.

    Most think on it for a while but do understand the implications. The usual response is: "Yeah, you're right! Gee! That WAS a close call!"


    Don't be shy! Be prepared to discuss Heller with common citizens. They're not, all, freaked-out, Brady types -- and they do tend to vote. . . .
     
  2. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    5,435
    Location:
    Howard County, Merry Land
    Maybe it's just me, but that's not the response I'd want to give people, especially if I have no idea what their views on guns and gun rights are.

    Hell, even as a gunnie, it seems a bit...reactionary. Now, I know where you're coming from, and in a way I agree, but to joe average, I think it paints a rather extreme picture.

    As always, just my two cents.
     
  3. XD Fan

    XD Fan Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,012
    Location:
    Stuck up here (rural Missouri) and got Dixie on my
    I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Losing Heller would have been devastating, but it would not have caused armed rebellion. Our nation is too apathetic. It would take a bigger shock than a Supreme Court decision to cause armed rebellion.

    Just my two cents.
     
  4. sqlbullet

    sqlbullet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    445
    Perhaps many of you aren't aware Montana's situation. A resolution expressed their intent to dissolve the Montana Compact if the court held other than an individual right. I think armed conflict may have been much more likely than most Americans want to admit.
     
  5. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,559
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I also don't think it is accurate. Whatever your sentiments, a different decision on Heller would not have automatically made our possession of guns illegal. It simply (at least in the short term) would have allowed DC to continue their handgun ban. There was no armed rebellion before Heller - and there would not likely have been one as a reaction to a different ruling.
     
  6. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    5,687
    Location:
    North Chesterfield, Virginia
    Perhaps a tad arrogant m'lord? :rolleyes:
     
  7. 41magsnub

    41magsnub Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Missoula Montana
    Next he will show the violence inherent in the system!
     
  8. Bartkowski

    Bartkowski Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,616
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I think that it would have had a greater effect than most of us think.(then again less than some of us think, like def4pos8)

    There probably wouldn't have been an immediate armed rebellion, but constant protests/riots. And if Montana did leave the U.S. that could easily put other ideas about rebellion in motion.
     
  9. XD Fan

    XD Fan Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,012
    Location:
    Stuck up here (rural Missouri) and got Dixie on my
    Link, please.
     
  10. bnkrazy

    bnkrazy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    382
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
  11. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Oh, yeah? I have a hunch the founding fathers would have grabbed their muskets and plenty of powder and ball.
     
  12. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,186
    Location:
    Southeast Michigan
    Yeah, but do people today have what it takes?
     
  13. yokel

    yokel Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,193
    Any sort of swaggering and threatening talk of CW2 is silly, ineffective, and could even be counterproductive.
     
  14. oldfart

    oldfart Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    767
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    "Any sort of swaggering and threatening talk of CW2 is silly, ineffective, and could even be counterproductive."

    Yeah, but if we don't say it once in awhile they'll think we've forgotten about it. Worse, we might forget about it.
     
  15. bogie

    bogie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    9,569
    Location:
    St. Louis, in the Don't Show Me state
    Hearts and minds, campers...

    Being aggressive, confrontational and antagonistic just reinforces all the stereotypes which the non-gun folks want the fence-sitters to believe.

    Be nice.

    Be a Good Example.

    And lead, instead of push.
     
  16. yokel

    yokel Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,193
    I reckon that anyone who is dead serious about engaging in violent and destructive action would be too busy planning and executing to talk about it.

    See what I mean?

    I've studied a little history and I know the kinds of body counts and horrors that even 'successful' revolutions can produce.
     
  17. def4pos8

    def4pos8 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    560
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    I think that those of us who exercise our Right to arms on a regular basis are NOT common citizens. We are not the norm in today's society. We are not better or worse than other citizens in our general behavior but our understanding of the implications of the Second Amendment sets us apart.

    I think that most citizens don't understand the free exercise of our Second Amendment -- or the others codified in the Bill of Rights and the balance of the Constitution. This is a sad situation.

    After grabbing their attention with my shock line, I push the conversation into a general discussion of Constitutional issues.

    I see Heller as a good decision that represents a tidal shift, reversing a forty-year trend of government encroachment. If it had gone the other way, things could have, eventually, slow as a glacier, gone very bad. That it likely won't degenerate to violence is a good thing.
     
  18. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    3,554
    Location:
    on the farm
    def4pos8, you gave us the context:
    I think that your "shock line" was excellent, coming from you, at work. Stay pleasant and professional, stimulate thought, and fulfill your mission:
    You might by your polite teaching influence folks to help themselves and others to stay alive elsewhere, too.

    Good thread.
     
  19. sacp81170a

    sacp81170a Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,410
    Location:
    Farmington, AR
    I think def4pos8 is exactly right.

    Probably the reason this tends to stun them is that it has a real grain of truth. We hear the history of the founding of our nation and it all seems so distant to us in our chemically and electronically over stimulated world. The Heller decision reaches all the way back to the reason for the Revolution and ties today's world directly to it. Makes ya think, which most folks aren't in the habit of doing, therefore the stunned reaction.

    5 watt load on a 2 watt circuit... ;)
     
  20. Picard

    Picard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    974
    Location:
    Illinois
    I very well think that it might have caused an armed rebellion. It could eventually lead to the confiscation of all firearms.

    What would infuriate me more is how clear it is to see the original intent of the Constitution, yet 4 Supreme Court Justices, people who should be more knowledgeable than any of us on the subject, did not agree.
     
  21. jaak

    jaak member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    85
    i would not rule out the possibility that an armed rebellion COULD have happened. would it? i doubt it. but nothing is impossible.
     
  22. Rokyudai

    Rokyudai Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    686
    Location:
    Texas
    You saw him repressing me? Didn't you!?

    Love Python!
     
  23. Seancass

    Seancass Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    952
    Location:
    purdue, indiana
    i just remind people that the criminals already had the guns and now the lawful can have them too! it's simpler and everybody believes it.
     
  24. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,056
    Location:
    SouthEast PA
    This is called the "macho flash", and it has its place, to be used sparingly and with judicious discretion.


    I actually don't think it an overstatement at all.

    Certainly, I'm not saying that gunfire would have erupted on June 27, but I think that had Heller gone against us, future history books would have noted that it was the moment at which armed internal conflict had become inevitable.
     
  25. TexasSkyhawk

    TexasSkyhawk Internet SEAL

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    467
    Location:
    Texas
    I do know from my old fed LE pals that better than two-dozen large, organized militias were watching this decision VERY intensely. I also know from them that there were some folks at DHS that were getting a severe case of the sweats in the days leading up to the decision.

    Some of the younger guys at our VFW post who worked special ops over in Sandland and Taliban-land told us that they were definitely typical of the specwar guys in believing STRONGLY in the Second Amendment--especially after fighting in a land in which only the bad guys have weapons, and it was part of their job to help arm the good guys and teach them how to overthrow the bad guys.

    I'm not a reactionist by any stretch, and I seen more than one civil war. And while I don't think the Heller decision, had it gone against us would have resulted in a civil war, I have no doubt that it would have lit the long fuse on a large powder keg.

    Jeff
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page