Made the jump to annealing.

[lightman]

Over the years I have annealed brass by several different methods.

My first attempts were using melted lead. I would melt the lead and let it stabilize at 700º, dip the case neck in lite machine oil and then stick it into the melted lead up to just below the shoulder. Then I would count, thousand 1, thousand 2, until the case got uncomfortable to hold in my fingers. Usually between 5 and 8 seconds. This method seemed to work well.

My next attempt was with a propane torch, a drill and a Chinese made socket. Results varied and I was never really satisfied.

My current method is that I bought a Giraud annealing machine. I use Tempilaq to set the dwell time and torch position. I'm fairly happy with the results.

I save junk brass to do my set-up. Split necks, loose primer pockets, ect. I pretty much follow the article thats on the Accurateshooter site. And like I said above, I use Tempilaq. Varmint Al, on his site Varmintal.com also has some info on annealing thats worth reading.

I bought the Giraud machine before the AMP machine came out, or I probably would have one of them. But I'm happy with the Giraud.

 

[Nature Boy]

Why people keep chasing those particular rabbits is beyond me.

I think we have an answer to why in this very thread.

Folks, don’t heat your brass until it’s dead soft. It doesn’t come from the manufacturer that way so why make it that way in your own reloading process.

My primer pockets give up the ghost long before I split any necks so my reason for annealing is to keep neck tension as consistent as I can. I use an Annealeeze to perform this task. I choose to follow their instructions, backed up by enough material science on the subject, which states heating the case neck to 750 degrees is the target for adequate annealing.

Internet blowhards notwithstanding, that’s good enough for me,

 

[N555]

High hardness brass may give more tension but that is not really sensible. The crimp locks the bullet from bring pushed deeper in the case, and uniform neck tension is the key to accuracy. I'm not saying annealing is required, but hard brass for high neck tension is definitely the long way around.

It's a 30-30 and it shoots about 1.5moa, it's exceeded my best expectations.
Biggest thing I need now is to tame to the 5.5 to 6lb trigger pull. If I further developed and had the perfect 30-30 ammo for that rifle that shot say 1/3moa with the gun strapped to a rest using a screw mechanism to aim it, making it a detachable rail gun. Then I pick it up and I shoot 1moa if I'm lucky, probably still going to shoot closer to 1.5moa. The gun moves around a lot trying to squeeze that trigger. I might do better with more practice but I would rather do a trigger job. Save the ammo and range time.
Just a good trigger job would knock an inch off the groups at 150yd.
When I started it shot 4 to 5 moa and was in danger of having a boating accident.

 

[N555]

How do you go about that? I had to scrap a whole pile of Nosler 06 bras because i got them too soft, would rather not do that if theres a way to fix it.

I just size it one time with a standard FL ball expander die. Nothing special.
If somehow you annealed them hotter than I do with mine and got them softer, which seems unlikely, hit the sizer twice.
With thin wall brass like 30-30 probably have to hit it with the sizer twice. I just added annealing to my 30-30 brass, groups dropped 2 to 3moa and opened up about 1moa. Luckily I only loaded up 25.
I took 3 of those low shooters, loaded them again without annealing and they shot fine. Then just threw all the brass on my 30-30 pile.
If you are going to try something new with your brass, yeah only do 10 to 30 incase it doesn't work.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I took the rifle back out. Putting the bird cage on. Did not stop the soot. The cases i did anneal. Did not soot much. I'll try running them 10 seconds under the heat. I'll anneal as i shoot the others.

 

[AJC1]

It's a 30-30 and it shoots about 1.5moa, it's exceeded my best expectations.
Biggest thing I need now is to tame to the 5.5 to 6lb trigger pull. If I further developed and had the perfect 30-30 ammo for that rifle that shot say 1/3moa with the gun strapped to a rest using a screw mechanism to aim it, making it a detachable rail gun. Then I pick it up and I shoot 1moa if I'm lucky, probably still going to shoot closer to 1.5moa. The gun moves around a lot trying to squeeze that trigger. I might do better with more practice but I would rather do a trigger job. Save the ammo and range time.
Just a good trigger job would knock an inch off the groups at 150yd.
When I started it shot 4 to 5 moa and was in danger of having a boating accident.

Every lever I own has a trigger job because I shoot Silhouette. The 11oz on my marlin 39a is amazing. When I shot a friend's 94 just like mine is when I figured out my dad had that gun done as well. It's like 3 lbs and a standard 94 needs a comealong to drop the hammer. I give 30-30 the same tlc I give my sons 357 rounds as I give my precision 308. It's all about the best I can produce. The annealing bit is mostly to help fire form and save the case. I would wager the Ole dirty thirty case is the most oversized by a lot.

 

[N555]

Every lever I own has a trigger job because I shoot Silhouette. The 11oz on my marlin 39a is amazing. When I shot a friend's 94 just like mine is when I figured out my dad had that gun done as well. It's like 3 lbs and a standard 94 needs a comealong to drop the hammer. I give 30-30 the same tlc I give my sons 357 rounds as I give my precision 308. It's all about the best I can produce. The annealing bit is mostly to help fire form and save the case. I would wager the Ole dirty thirty case is the most oversized by a lot.

11oz sounds as scarry as it does intriguing.

 

[AJC1]

11oz sounds as scarry as it does intriguing.

It's my favorite gun to teach gun safety. Those saftey rules are their for a reason. The kidd trigger on my 10-22 isn't much more. These are range guns only.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I did good with a 10 second anneal. No smashed in necks. They sized nice too.

 

[LoonWulf]

I’m always learning every day Bra, I remember crying over toasted Lapua brass for my BR.
Dang it was not exactly the words I used but you get the idea.

Yeah, i hear you. Noslers not Lapua, but i was a bitter critter over that one lol.

 

[irishlad]

I read every one of these discussions and have come to the conclusion that this is all Voo-Doo magic. I am not a degreed metallurgist nor an expert. Just a recreational shooter/reloader. I have a way that I do it, right or wrong it is what I do and all I can go by is results. Since I started doing this my scores have improved noticeably and my brass is lasting longer and to me that is all that matters. So is it correct? I doubt it, is it perfect? Again I doubt it. But it has made a difference.

Well said. I shoot and reload for recreation also. Since I got and use my Annealeez no more split necks with 204 Ruger. It's so easy to use I anneal all my rifle brass before every reloading. Not sure if this is scientifically correct, but it works for me.

 

[AJC1]

Well said. I shoot and reload for recreation also. Since I got and use my Annealeez no more split necks with 204 Ruger. It's so easy to use I anneal all my rifle brass before every reloading. Not sure if this scientifically correct, but it works for me.

Correct is when it works or saves you money!!!

 

[N555]

I did good with a 10 second anneal. No smashed in necks. They sized nice too.

And you wont smash necks.
I heat up shortened 30-06 orange hot with the induction annealer and form them into 8x57 in one push. All I use is pleblube (vegetable oil).
The only time I crushed necks was trying to make 308 into 6.5creedmoor during the plandemic, but it didn't matter if I annealed them or not. The correct way to make 6.5 brass is buy it.
There's probably some highly overbored cases that will crush when near dead soft annealed, but I don't know what those might be.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Well done fellows. You have my respect.

Another thread beyond my comprehension.

 

[N555]

Well done fellows. You have my respect.

Another thread beyond my comprehension.

It's actually really, really simple. There's just a lot of obsessive compulsive people adding unnecessary steps and complexity to the process because they don't understand what's going on.

 

[doubleh]

The only thing I will add is this subject had been beaten until only bone dust and flecks of hide are all that are left of this horse and still no one agrees on much of anything. This forum, that forum, take your choice.

 

[CQB45ACP]

The only thing I will add is this subject had been beaten until only bone dust and flecks of hide are all that are left of this horse and still no one agrees on much of anything. This forum, that forum, take your choice.

Silly you. It’s a quest for DNA and once we get it, off to 23&Me and Ancestry it goes to see who has original rights.

 

[AJC1]

And you wont smash necks.
I heat up shortened 30-06 orange hot with the induction annealer and form them into 8x57 in one push. All I use is pleblube (vegetable oil).
The only time I crushed necks was trying to make 308 into 6.5creedmoor during the plandemic, but it didn't matter if I annealed them or not. The correct way to make 6.5 brass is buy it.
There's probably some highly overbored cases that will crush when near dead soft annealed, but I don't know what those might be.

I was very curious about trying to add a very accurate timer to a shop induction heater and see if I could get good results cheap. The shop ones were like 100 dollars and a good timer is like 40 bucks. The cool part is you could watch it work unlike being hidden in the fancy expensive machines.

 

[Thomasss]

When using propane you get a flame color change from blue to green in dim light. That was when I immediatly stopped. Now I immerse the necks in liquid lead at approx 650* until I feel heat at the case head then stop.

Don't you get a lead coating on the case? How would you them clean them?
I tried annealing 30,06 and ,270 cases and never got consistent results with a propane torch. I figured the cases are common enough to just load them 4-5x and then scrap 'em. Even during Covid there were plenty to be had.

 

[N555]

I was very curious about trying to add a very accurate timer to a shop induction heater and see if I could get good results cheap. The shop ones were like 100 dollars and a good timer is like 40 bucks. The cool part is you could watch it work unlike being hidden in the fancy expensive machines.

I get cheap cases like Remington will coming up to temperature a second faster than meatier cases, so will have to at least sort by head stamp.
You can get good results but a 1,000w induction heater is going to put a lot of heat into the case really fast, it will take at least a 0.1 second timer.
A lower powered induction heater would be more predictable.
I figure if someone with an AMP machine was so inclined they could cut the head off a case with a dremal, stick it in down in the hole, push the button and be able see what happens.

 

[doubleh]

Don't you get a lead coating on the case? How would you them clean them?

When the brass becomes as hot as the lead it won't stick.

 

[N555]

Don't you get a lead coating on the case? How would you them clean them?
I tried annealing 30,06 and ,270 cases and never got consistent results with a propane torch. I figured the cases are common enough to just load them 4-5x and then scrap 'em. Even during Covid there were plenty to be had.

Dipping the case in melted lead at 850f doesn't do anything.
The way heat transfer works, if you dip part of something like a brass case in 850f lead, the brass pieces struggles to get up to temperature. The lead starts to cool and the heat flows from where you want it in the neck and shoulders to the case head where you don't want it. That's why we use a torch or an electromagnetic field that could easily melt the brass if given enough time.
If you could keep the neck and shoulders immersed in the lead for a few minutes and could keep the case head cool, then it would probably do something.

 

[N555]

I was very curious about trying to add a very accurate timer to a shop induction heater and see if I could get good results cheap. The shop ones were like 100 dollars and a good timer is like 40 bucks. The cool part is you could watch it work unlike being hidden in the fancy expensive machines.

For you look at an AMP case vs my induction annealed cases they look surprisingly similar.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

For you look at an AMP case vs my induction annealed cases they look surprisingly similar.
View attachment 1144627

My brass came out looking like yours.

 

[AJC1]

I get cheap cases like Remington will coming up to temperature a second faster than meatier cases, so will have to at least sort by head stamp.
You can get good results but a 1,000w induction heater is going to put a lot of heat into the case really fast, it will take at least a 0.1 second timer.
A lower powered induction heater would be more predictable.
I figure if someone with an AMP machine was so inclined they could cut the head off a case with a dremal, stick it in down in the hole, push the button and be able see what happens.

It would be helpful to know how strong the Amp is to get close. Anyone got an Amp and a kill-o-watt to check the draw.