Magazine disconnect pro/con.

[cowssurf]

I live in Utah, will soon move to California. I'm not excited about having to buy a gun with a magazine disconnect. I'm just wondering what the pros and cons are to everyone. I don't see any pros. My biggest con is that I don't want an extra part, and I don't want it to affect trigger feel. I don't have a gun with one, so for those who do, does it affect the trigger feel on your particular model?

Here's a pro I've heard a lot, that I find bizarre: people say that if they feel that losing their gun is imminent, they can push the mag release to render the gun useless. I just don't see how that would come into play. Would you be mid-struggle, and think in your mind, "It appears this villain is nearly gaining the upper hand, and soon will have taken my gun from me. I have no confidence in my ability to retain it any longer. I shall push the magazine disconnect now!" It seems so far-fetched. Am I alone in this thought?

 

[NavyLCDR]

No, you are not alone. I think magazine disconnects are useless as well.

I have a Ruger P345 and I don't seem to notice a difference in the trigger feel just because of the mag disconnect.

 

[Darthbauer]

I also dont like them.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I can take or leave them, but I too fail to see what advantage there is to disabling a gun.

 

[Mad Magyar]

If you have trigger experience, what's the problem? There is a good reason for having it: GUN GRAB.....Now, if it's not your carry gun, who cares?

 

[possum]

there was a similar thread on here before, and i got some resistance, but i as well don't really have a need for them. if it makes people sleep better at night than fine, if they feel an extra margin of safety ok. it is kinda like the keyed locks that are being found on the internals of so many guns these days and such. i don't have a need for that either, at least with those you can or can't use em if you don't want to.

the mag disconect can be removed on some guns, which i know isn't an option for some of you guys and where you live.

the resistance that i got was from somone that was an agent i think presumably in the fbi or other federal agency, and he stated that there were several instances where thier agents got into a confrintation and droped the mag and the bg got the weapon and all was well. so on and so on.

that is why i train in armed and unarmed combatives as well as using sul, and retention type postions. as well as i am a ccw and not an open carrier, or someone that walk around with a badge then i haven't had any issues like some of the uniform peace officers might. if i am going into a bad part of town, i am in full gear, m4 12 mags or so, pyro and 12 buddies, a couple gun trucks and a radio that links me to the wrath of god, but hey that is just me!

 

[isp2605]

3 guys from my dept who I know personally and one of our dispatchers who worked part time for a local dept are all alive today because of the mag disconnect in our S&W autos. 2 intentionally dropped the mag as they thought they were about to lose control over their firearm. The other inadvertently dropped the mag sometime during the struggle. In all 4 cases the BGs eventually disarmed them and attempted to kill them with their own gun. In one of the cases the backup officer killed the 2 guys who had disarmed the other Troop. In the other 3 cases the Troops were not carrying a backup but after the BGs tried several times to fire the Troops gun they gave up and ran.
We issued S&W autos for 32 yrs and our range guys did a lot of studies nationwide on the mag disconnect feature (along with other points). It was not uncommon to find cases were a LEO survived because of the mag disconnect. In the 32 yrs we never found one documented case where the mag disconnect was a detriment.
The old "scenario" of needing to fire a gun during a reload but was disabled was never found to have happened in actual shooting cases. That appears to be a "scenario" perpetuated by gun writers who get paid by the word and those who have never studied actual shooting cases.
Doesn't matter to me if you like them or not. Just base your decision on facts and not some scenario that hasn't been documented.

 

[10-Ring]

Yeah, I'm not a fan, never have, never will Part of why I sold my S&W semi auto and had it removed from my BHP

 

[saltydog452]

If the disconnect drops the mag free, maybe someone can rationalize its existence.

Although I can't figure out why there is a mag disconnect that does NOT completely drop the mag. Maybe in a post WW1 trench warfare mentality someone could have dreamed up a reason to disable the weapon, but keep the mag kinda/sorta/almost nearly in place??

I dunno.

salty

 

[Steve in PA]

A magazine disconnect only works when there is not a magazine in the weapon.

If you dump the magazine, you cannot fire the gun. Several years ago, a mag disconnect saved a local officer here too. Or at least prevent the bad guy from using the weapon against him.

The BG grabbed the officers gun as they were walking out of court. No, I do not know what type of holster the officer had. As they wrestled for control of the handgun, the officer hit the mag release, rendering the weapon inoperable. The BG was eventually subdued.

Whether or not the disconnect is a good or bad thing is a personal preferance. I have one pistol, a S&W 6906 that has the mag disconnect. I don't love or hate it.

 

[marklbucla]

I had a mag disconnect on a FN Hi-Power SFS model. I promptly had it removed and the trigger lightened up quite a bit.

I also see no point to having one on there. Just another part to break that doesn't need to be there.


A couple of other points:

This only applies to guns that aren't already on the roster for handguns certified for sale. MFGs can renew their certifications without having to modify their designs. SB 489 was altered so that it only applies to guns off the safety test list that are applying to get on it.

Also, before you move, buy all the handguns you'll want so you don't have to deal with the stupid 10 day waits, outrageous FFL fees, and the safety test list.

Check out Calguns.net to see what's going on with the 2A in California and the policies regarding OLLs.

 

[Moonclip]

I voted I liked them. I don't really they are necessary but in guns like the S&W autos or the BHP it doesn't really bug me and I think they are good for some people and situations.

I am against integral locks though and some methods of having a loaded chamber indicator.

Most of my guns lack them though but I don't remove it from guns that do.

 

[choochboost]

They have saved lives and have also put lives at risk. What is preferable for duty, might not be preferable for CCW. Everyone has to consider the pros and cons and decide for themselves. I have 2 pistols with a mag disconnect, but I think I am going to eventually "disconnect" the disconnect.

 

[mgregg85]

I like the thought of being able to fire the round left in the chamber if I happen to be in the middle of a tactical reload.

As far as gun grabs go, if someone grabs at my gun I will be firing all 14(or whatever is left) shots as fast as I can trying to get them to stop.

 

[Dstoerm]

I have no guns with mag disconnects... I either bought them without or removed them. However, I am not a cop.

My cop friends who deal with prisoners (Jail Duty) or work the beat and make arrests daily have clearly stated to me that the disconnect saves LEO lives when the BG gets too close, gets the gun then tries to use the gun on the cop. Drop the mag and the BG gets a real dumb look on his face when he realizes it will not fire - either by pulling the trigger or seeing that the cop is right back in the fight without fear of being shot. Disconnects can theoretically fail, but in a fight I will take every advantage.

I have seen reports where dumb BGs cannot figure out the safety on a 'grabbed gun' before they get the 'lead lunch' themsleves.

My CCW and range guns are for MY use and if a BG gets close enough, the mag will be empty before the disconnect ever comes into play.

That is why S&W sells them both ways.

 

[B yond]

On one hand, it's nice to know you can disable your weapon in a struggle by dropping the mag. On the other hand, if you accidentally drop the mag somehow and don't realize it until you need a functioning weapon, you don't have that one shot in the tube to buy you some time.

 

[SubSolar]

By the way, I live in California and you don't HAVE to buy a handgun with magazine disconnect. It's just that brand new models must have the magazine disconnect. Models that have already been approved just keep getting renewed every year. As long as they don't change it significantly, its grandfathered in. So you can buy most new handguns out there, unless they are a brand new model like an HK45, XD-M, 220 Match and a bunch of others that I wouldn't mind buying.

 

[akulahawk]

I also live in California. If the pistol is on the list, no matter how long it has been on there, if the fees are paid to keep the pistol on the list, it will remain on the list. The Loaded Chamber Indicator and Magazine Disconnect only applies to either new pistols being submitted for testing OR pistols that fell off the list and are being added back to it.

For cowssurf, as long as the pistol isn't what California defines as an "Assault Weapon" for a pistol, you can bring in as many pistols as you want and they do NOT have to be "on the list". Private Party Transfers/Consignment guns are also exempt from the list.

As far as the Magazine Disconnect thing goes, they're good gun grabs. That's about it. Ideally, if you are legally CCW, nobody should even know that you're armed. I hope you move to a CCW Friendly County in California. They are out there...

 

[AirForceShooter]

I have a Charles Daly Hi-Power. With the disconnect the trigger was from a Peter Built truck. Once I had it removed the trigger was awesome.

AFS

 

[righteousbarbarian]

I like to have the ability to get one more shot in an emergency if my magazine drops out accidentally.

 

[Moonclip]

For those that replied that they would never have a gun grap attemt and would shoot the gun dry before it became an issue, can you actually never see being in a situation, especially in LE where while in a stuggle for the gun shooting it may not be possible or feasible but dropping the mag would?

Anyone here trained in handgun retention? I can see situations where I would drop the mag in a mag idsconnect pistol and go for a backup.

I own an operate guns made both ways so I guess it doesn't really bother me.

 

[c1ogden]

The pros are you can disable the gun by dropping the magazine. A number of LEOs have survived gun grabs because they were able to hit the mag release before the dirtbag had full control of the gun.

The cons are that you can disable the gun by dropping the magazine. If something happens to your mag you are left with an expensive club.

All of my guns that came with magazine disconnectors (some people erroneously refer to them as magazine safeties) have had them removed.

When my agency switched to autos 20 years ago we eliminated all guns with disconnectors right from the start.

 

[TAB]

to me does not really matter that much, if I was a LEO, I would want a mag disconnect.

 

[meef]

You know, I keep hearing this thing about how mag disconnects saved the life of an LEO over and over.

It strikes me as an urban legend.

If I was struggling with someone for the possession of my pistol, my focus would be on "keep control of the damn gun!" - not "must press disconnect, must press disconnect".

If you've got the time and presence of mind to get around to pressing your mag disconnect, I'd think the struggle must not be all that fierce or desperate.

I don't want to press the freaking mag disconnect if someone's trying to take my piece from me - I want to press the damned TRIGGER!

It's actually easier to do, you know. And much more effective.

 

[TAB]

Its actually very easy to strip a weapon from some ones hands, even those that are trying to hang onto it.

While yes shooting them would always be nice, its not always a option.