Magnets better than springs?

[Dravur]

Or....
grab a couple of these magnets.... dip em in plastic and make a mag for yourself and give it a test. It seems like a good idea.

 

[Magnetic Magazine]

Once again this is my fault, I have failed to explain it in a way that conveys my point.
My references to physics and Newtons laws is to describe how a spring works, and that it is a way to store energy. And my concern with a spring that is weakening is not that it WONT release this energy, it is the speed at which this energy is released (acceleration). As I stated earlier the bolt is only to the rear for a fraction of a second, and if the spring cannot deliver the rounds to the magazines lips in this period of time, you have problem.
Also, Magazine rotation is widely seen as a solution to this problem, so is loading your mag with one or two less rounds.
I have seen springs (admittedly not yours) that were stored for long periods of time, weaken to the point of non function, and this is my way of trying to solve it.
I am very appreciative of the opinions that have been brought forward, even the negative ones, but I'm convinced that if you held this magazine in your hand and fired it just once, you could see for yourself how well this works.

 

[SSN Vet]

it is the speed at which this energy is released (acceleration).

this is the most interesting part of this thread to me... I had never considered the rate of the cartridge poping up into the receiver....

if the spring force weekens, the rate at which the mass (rounds in the mag) are lifted will decrease....

I am having a hard time accepting that a properly designed mag. system will experience weekening of the springs during loaded storage... as they should be operating right in the middle of their elastic range and should neither be stressed enough or hot enough to creep.

Fatigue is another story... but off course that has to do with cycling the mag. mechanism repeatedly.... and any metal alloy suitable for use as a spring should certainly be chosen with fatigue resistance in mind.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

Really cool idea. I would like to see a website with pictures of the magazine upclose and features, and prices. It's more of a luxury toy than it is a solution to a serious problem, but once these get good reviews for reliability I think theyre gonna sell like hotcakes.

 

[hso]

You have some impeccable timing!

Impeachable seems more accurate.

 

[akodo]

"Permanent magnets exhibit a characteristic called coercivity, which is the ability of a material to withstand being demagnetized by an applied magnetic field. Modern permanent magnet materials such as Sm-Co and Nd-Fe-B have high coercivities; older materials such as Alnico or ceramic [hard ferrite] materials have lower coercivities. With a strong enough magnetic field of opposite polarity, it is therefore possible to demagnetize the magnet [whether this comes from another permanent magnet, or a solenoid]. Interestingly, an opposing magnetic field is sometimes applied to a magnet in order to 'knock it down', or to lower its overall magnetic output, so that it can be used appropriately in an application."

This magnetic magazine works on having two magnets of opposite polarity crossing their fields which results in repulsion. The magnets will each gradually demagnetize each-other.

I am sure there are some equations where you can enter in the strength of magnetic field A and field B, then enter in the distance apart and possibly some other variables and solve for how much degrade you have per unit time. It is possible that left in a fully loaded state (where the two fields will have the MOST negative interaction with each-other) you can go 100 years before they wear out...but maybe not. You need to be able to show through experimentation or through mathematics that these things will last

 

[akodo]

this is the most interesting part of this thread to me... I had never considered the rate of the cartridge poping up into the receiver....

if the spring force weekens, the rate at which the mass (rounds in the mag) are lifted will decrease....

a big part of this is the load on the spring. When the spring has to lift 29 cartridges it is going to be slower than when it is lifting a single cartridge. So you are going to have a huge variable in 'lift speed' right off the bat when the magazine is new based on if it is the 1st, 3rd, 13th, or 30th round being shot. I can't imagine that a weakening of spring force is going to be an issue regarding 'lift speed'

note, in the beginning the magnet magazine will be lifting a lot more mass too, so it too will have a very highly variable 'lift speed' as well, if you compare first shot and last shot.

 

[akodo]

you mentioned heat not being a factor.

Others have countered with stories about how hot it gets on the dash of a car.

What about firing an M-16 until you can see a faint red glow coming from the barrel at night? Todd Jerrett has a video of himself firing a tremendous amount of 45 ammo all in a row (he has 3 guys loading magazines) and the heat from the discharge soon moves to the trigger) It seems to me that simply high rates of fire are going to have the potential to produce enough heat that it will leech down and damage the magnet.

nonmagnetic steel and other metals can be magnetized by exposing them to a magnetic field. What are the risks of long term exposure causing key rifle parts to become slightly magnetic...enough to interfere with their standard timing?

 

[EddieNFL]

a big part of this is the load on the spring. When the spring has to lift 29 cartridges it is going to be slower than when it is lifting a single cartridge. So you are going to have a huge variable in 'lift speed' right off the bat when the magazine is new based on if it is the 1st, 3rd, 13th, or 30th round being shot.

Wouldn't the amount of compression offset this, at least to a certain degree?

 

[billybobjoe]

Does magnetic repulsion follow the Law F=-kX?

 

[billybobjoe]

Just because something is "not for everybody" doesn't mean there is no market for the product. For example: tampons!

 

[hso]

Does magnetic repulsion follow the Law F=-kX?

No

Inverse square relationship. r=2->F=1/4, r=3->F=1/9, r=4->F=1/16 The farther apart the magnets the faster the force falls off.

 

[kwelz]

I am not sold on the idea. However I am always in favor of any attempt to innovate with firearms.

 

[thorazine]

Thorazine, I believe the spring you are seeing is actually a stack of rare earth magnets on a guide rod, unless you are seeing something I'm not. A stack of disk magnets, stacked N to N and S to S, repel each other, making a magnetic spring. This is a proof of concept using a standard mag body.

I see.

Looked like a spring in the videos -- which confused me. =/

 

[Roccobro]

Impeachable seems more accurate.

I was just trying to be... ah... polite while patting down the troll hunting hairs on the nape of my neck.

Justin

 

[Uncle Mike]

I don't like it...makes my watch run backwards!

 

[akodo]

Quote:
a big part of this is the load on the spring. When the spring has to lift 29 cartridges it is going to be slower than when it is lifting a single cartridge. So you are going to have a huge variable in 'lift speed' right off the bat when the magazine is new based on if it is the 1st, 3rd, 13th, or 30th round being shot.

Wouldn't the amount of compression offset this, at least to a certain degree?

to a degree it would. My main point is the WEAR on the spring and it's relation to how quickly it raises the next round is irrelevant considering how big of variation you have between first round and last round.

It's like debating if running the AC or rolling down a window is going to give you better fuel economy for your car...while towing a Uhaul trailer filled with bricks behind you.

 

[wishin]

If I were the inventor of this innovative approach to feeding a weapon and was fully convinced of its viability, I would take every issue raised and address it here point by point where the tire meets the road. Just saying.....

 

[TeamPrecisionIT]

I am not here to argue over the science at all, I just made a casual observation and am wondering how you can say there is no spring when I am looking at one clear as day right there:



If you say that is not a spring then why is it coiled like one? I took one frame grab but if you look around the 6-8 second part of the short video you can see it wound in there.

Damian

 

[davec921]

I looked at that frame frame a few times.
It looks to me to be the magnets you are seeing an the silver witch you are calling the spring is a spacer in between the magnets.
All in all it looks to be a great idea.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If you say that is not a spring then why is it coiled like one?

I don't see any coil. I see what appear to be concentric arcs.