Make your case for the best "combat" pistol made

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Boats

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Please make your most solid positive argument for your choice for the best combat pistol in the world. Please pick one in one caliber, not a family and the why for that member of the family over its siblings.

So for instance, if you like the 1911A1 in a Commander size make your case for it over everything else and the Government Model, or for the Glock 19 over the 17 for instance, or the P226 over the P220 but not both.

Let 'er rip in the best spirit of The High Road and let's avoid a flamefest.
 
I'm not gonna go and say that the 1911 is superior to everything else. I will say that it's reputation as the most successful combat pistol of all time preceeds it. A loose, rattlin' 5 inch 1911A1, without a doubt.
 
Id have to say three of the classics have it.......

1911
CZ 75
Browning High-Power

The 1911 is the oldest running, the Browning is a Classic and the CZ is in more military side holsters than any other gun through out the world.

Shoot well.......
 
Glock in 9mm.

Idiotically simple, tough as nails, extremely reliable out of the box, holds a lot of bullets, light weight, low-maintenance, and virtually corrosion-proof.
 
CZ 75B 9mm
Can be carried in many conditions for a wide variety of tactics and policies including C&L.
High capacity 16 round factory magazines are available.
Can handle +P / CIP spec 9mm all day.
Accurate and reliable from the factory.

Really the only edge it has over the Glock is C&L or DA first shot option and on average better accuracy. If I was going to be trudging through a swamp for 4 months without a chance to stop and clean my side arm, I'd take the Glock. If I could occassionally rinse it off and maybe oil it, the CZ would be a better choice for me.
 
Best Combat Pistol . . .

Okay, Boats, I am going to take the “contrairian†viewpoint. For the sake of discussion, I nominate the S&W Custom Shop, N Frame, five-inch barrel, eight shot, .357 magnum, Model 627, REVOLVER (catalog #170210). My rationale follows.

Reliability, Durability, Quality, and so forth:
Few will doubt that a Smith Custom Shop revolver will be at least as reliable/durable as ANY other top-quality handgun. Further, manufacturing quality, fit and finish will also be superb. In combat conditions, the revolver’s mechanical systems can be protected from battlefield detritus with a good flap-holster and with reasonable care. Please note that several “elite†combat groups (USN Seals, French Special Forces) have used Smith stainless revolvers as their sidearms.

Accuracy:
With a longer sight-radius, with a micrometer-adjustable rear sight, with a full interchangeable front sight, and especially with the intrinsic advantages of a fixed/static-barrel, an outstanding revolver’s inherent accuracy will be superb. I am sure we have all seen the Jerry Miculek 200 yard “balloon shots†with his Smith 627, which demonstrate superior inherent accuracy.

Capacity:
Some will argue that this revolver’s eight shot capacity is a significant disadvantage, in comparison to equally high-quality autoloaders. I disagree. EVERY handgun is a LAST DEFENSE weapon in any combat situation. Eight rounds without reloading is precisely what the GI 1911A1 provided – using MilSpec magazines and in Condition One (and please remember, service doctrine normally mandated Condition Three, thus seven rounds). In addition, reloads – especially with full moonclips – have been demonstrated to be faster with revolvers than with semiautomatics employing magazine (although I readily admit this requires considerable expertise). However, the primary point is eight rounds should be adequate for terminal defense, IF THE OPERATOR DOES HIS JOB WELL.

Potency:
Top-rated .357 magnum JHPs (Speer Gold Dots, CorBon, Remington Golden Sabers, and several others) remain exceptionally lethal defensive rounds. While many of us believe the 10mm, the .45 ACP, and other rounds are comparatively effective, no one doubts that the best .357 magnum defensive loads are exceptionally effectual, fundamentally the "standard of comparison" for all other sidearms.

Carriage and Concealment:
If we are really discussing COMBAT – uniformed, military operations – concealment is not a crucial variable. However, if your “combat†includes concealed law enforcement/personal defense, I can attest to the five-inch N Frame’s ability to be easily hidden, with the right holster and belt.

Safety and Simplicity:
All excellent modern revolvers have a very simple, very safe design and “manual of armsâ€. Their long, heavy DA trigger pull combined with a non-hammer-mounted firing pin provides safety without complexity.

To summarize, I realize this proposal is certain to generate considerable dissension. That is fine and, in fact, it is my intension. I simply ask critics to explain FACTUALLY the eight shot, Smith 627’s relative deficiencies in the context of the foregoing, critical attributes.

Regards to all.
 
if "combat" means actual warfare:

Makarov
reliable, easy to maintain, cheap to produce so more people can have a sidearm. 9mm Makarov FMJ is equal in stopping power to 9x19mm FMJ and that's all militaries can use as standard anyway. The round is subsonic and the barrel is fixed so it's easily adapted to silencers.
 
I can find no fault with RWK's reasoning. I just happen to like auto-loaders. :D There are many types of "combat" maybe we should limit the discussion to guns with Combat in the name. Like the CZ 85 Combat and the Combat Master ;)

The general feel I've gotten over the years is for defense a revolver is pretty hard to beat. For offense, go get a longarm. For offense, when you have no other choice, settle for an auto pistol.

If I get to CCW I see myself being more likely recruited to assist police or to come to the aid of an unarmed citizen than falling under the line of fire myself so an auto would be my 1st choice.
 
5" steel frame 1911 in .45

..if you have to ask...

- Gabe
 
Glock 20-10mm.
Reliability - 100% even with .40s&w conversion.
Speed - I'm just as slow with the 20 as I am with a 9mm.
Accuracy - Most accurate Glock I've shot.
POWER! - Lots'a power without lots'a recoil.
Versatility - Can fire .40s&w or 357sig with a barrel swap.
Sixteen rounds of 10mm Silvertips should handle any situation.
1911's just don't fit me.
I can fire 10mm just as well as 9mm, so for me it's a no brainer.
 
The logic of the M627 above pertains equally well to the basic K series Smiths; for purposes of illustration, the M19/66 series. Considering that these were basically THE police sidearm through the 70s and 80s, they have probably been fired in serious action than almost any other police or military sidearm through those years. Probably the only serious contender in that respect would be the Glock.

My own variation on that was the Security Six, which could be considered the same basic weapon in tougher guise. As mentioned, a service-type revolver in a flap holster is pretty darned reliable.

I remain unconvinced that all handgun problems are best settled with a semiauto. Requirement #2 is that the gun you brought *work* and that is what wheelguns are best at.

The long gun is the one you really want anyway.
 
Polish VIS-35 Radom 9MM. A currently PC caliber but, the "for war" 9MM was the cartridge in europe. The manual of arms is simple. The pistol is easy to disassemble and reassemble. The pistol has a hammer retraction drop, grip safety and can be put into action simply by cocking the hammer back. The Polish Army used them, the German Army used them and when they were surplus, many US lawmen bought them and carried them for years. The semi-autos in my family were the 1911, BHP and VIS-35s. I like the VIS-35.
 
The SIG 226

1. Safe for combat/war carry (DA/SA).

2. Simple. The little swing lever disassembly has to be the simplest/foolproof yet.

3. Tough. Sturdy, no-nonsense construction

4. Reliable. SIG's are probably the most reliable handgun ever manufactured. Just a boring, no excuses "bet you ass" pistol.

5. Good ergonomics (not as good as the Walther and P2000, but good).

6. 16 rounds with one safe to carry under combat conditions round in the chamber.

7. Nice, smooth double-action with an excellent single-action.


The SEALs don't carry them for nothing. The 226 is the best no-B.S. combat handgun available.
 
War?

Well...If I know I'm gonna be in a fight, I'll pick up a rifle, but for a secondary, backup, or primary weapon that I'll carry for an unexpected
UTYAIA event or an extended stay in the bush...

A 5-inch, steel-framed, .45 caliber1911 with sights I can use, a 5-6 pound clean trigger, and a light dehorning and snag-proofing treatment. I want it to be loose enough to work if I can't keep it squeaky clean, but no so loose that it rattles loud enough to spook a deer at a hundred yards. I want it accurate enough for me to keep inside 6 inches at 25 yards offhand, and I want a lanyard loop. Second choice would go to a steel-framed Commander...and I still want a lanyard loop.

Reasons: Durability...Reliability...and quick detail-stripping without
armorer's tools for cleaning and parts replacement if need be.

For urban concealed carry, when I can return to home base daily, a
LW Commander is ideal...No lanyard loop required.

The steel-framed pistols can be used to beat the soup outta somebody too...and if it's correctly done, the gun won't be damaged.

First ammo choice is a handload consisting of the old standard...Unique...and the Hornady or Sierra 230 grain flat point FMJ.
Second choice is the same powder and a 230 RN...factory hardball is third.

Luck!

Tuner
 
If I was going to war and had a choice of sidearm for open carry, I'd pick one of the basic 1911 Government Models built to 1911A1 specs with perhaps the only modification being better sights (like King's Hardball or similar). This is a robust and heavy gun that shoots a big and heavy bullet, yet is not extremely difficult to shoot. It has a good solid history in combat, in many extreme environments and if the gun is built and mantained right, I feel confident that it won't let me down.

Of course, in reality as a civilian, open carry is not a viable option for me most of the time. Yet, the slim 1911 can still be comfortable concealed IWB on my hip. Granted, in my quiet and peaceful life, I mostly carry a much lighter Colt CCO with it's short Commander slide and it's lightweight alloy Officer's frame, but the bigger Government Model can still be found on my hip now and then. If I felt that harm was more likely to come my way, one of my Government Models would certainly be my companion more often.

1927.jpg
 
Combat pistol

If you are talking about pistol that one would have to depend on as a primary weapon during combat conditions - I would have to say H&K Mk23. The only handgun in US arsenal that is considered to be an offensive weapon - all the other ones are carried for defence.

If you are talking about army pistol in general, I would HAVE TO say Glock 17. I DON'T LIKE Glock 17 personally. But I would have to say it will fit the bill perfectly. It is cheap and easy to manufacture, uses standard NATO round, has a long life, reliable, easy to maintain, holds a lot of rounds...

If you are talking about best combat handgun designed in a historical perspective, and we forget about production speed and cost - than we are talking about my favorice two handguns - M1911-A1 and Browning Hi Power.
 
The term “combat pistol†covers a lot of ground. Are you thinking in the context of a military sidearm, law enforcement, civilian CCW or a house gun?

Across this broad range I don’t think there is one “best,†but if I had to pick one, and only one, it would be a standard configuration Colt Government Model .45 pistol. An older gun would be fine, but a newer one would be stripped of all lockwork not made of “real steel.â€

Why? Because it is a well-proven design, the cartridge it uses are more that adequate for social purposes regardless of what kind of bullet is loaded in it, and ammunition is readably available. Unlike other pistols, it can be detail stripped without tools, and parts (that are also readably available) can often be replaced by the gun’s owner rather then an armorer or gunsmith. The same can be said about magazines and accessories.

Its consistent, relatively light trigger pull lends itself to fast, but accurate shooting – which can be critical in a fight, and is often overlooked in discussions of this kind. If one ignores some of the junk being sold today, the old Browning design’s reliability is legendary in any and all kinds of environments. Maintaining it under any circumstances is easy, and requires no special tools.

Other candidates for the “best†title offer some of these features, but not all of them, but to each his own. Use that which you have the most confidence in.
 
If by best, you mean "historically combat proven", then it would be either the 1911 in the US or the Browning Hi-Power outside the US. Between the two, I don't think there are any other pistols having served as long as successfully. There are other designs out there with merit, but none have the service record of the above two. Especially as both continue to be actively used in both the civilian and military world.

In terms of overall use, I think the Hi-Power may actually edge out the 1911 only because of it's international usage.

If by best you mean generally, I would go with the 1911 for the same reasons may others have posted. Proven reliability and durability.

While I keep wanting to "love" my Commander more, I would stick with the full size 1911 if it had to be 1 pistol.
 
If you are talking about pistol that one would have to depend on as a primary weapon during combat conditions - I would have to say H&K Mk23. The only handgun in US arsenal that is considered to be an offensive weapon - all the other ones are carried for defence.
Actually, the M1911 (still in use) was designed for offensive use (from the back of a horse)--and it's a whole lot easier to tote around than a Mk 23.
 
If you are talking about pistol that one would have to depend on as a primary weapon during combat conditions - I would have to say H&K Mk23. The only handgun in US arsenal that is considered to be an offensive weapon - all the other ones are carried for defence.
Actually, the M1911 (still in use) was designed for offensive use (from the back of a horse)--and it's a whole lot easier to tote around than a Mk 23.

Before I could award a "BEST," it would have to be proven--that leaves only two the 1911A1 and the P35. The Glock in particular, the CZ and so on may look good on paper, but until it has actually "been there--done that," you really don't for sure.
 
1. S&W mod 66 .357 Magnum
2. 1911
3. tie CZ-75, Glock 17, Sig226, and hi power.
4. Markov and CZ 52
5. M9 92f




Just consider the large number of special operations and tactical combat success. With the above weapons.

And for all of you my caliber is better that your caliber. None are .40, 10mm, or .357 Sig.

Does pump 12 gauge with a pistol grip count?
 
We should limit this list to Combat pistols you don't own. I'm afraid this list is starting to look like a "pistols I own" gallery.:D

And I should add that the Sig's improvement on the Browning locking action is so reliable that basically every serious design since has been a rip-off.
 
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