Malfunction drill vs. reloading?

[ShooterMcGavin]

A stove-pipe failure or other FTFeed can look almost identical to the locked-back slide of an empty magazine; similar also with a rifle FTF. This confusion would be very much compounded by the stress of a life/death situation.

The malfunction drill is tap-rack-bang, as you all know. But, are you sure it was a malfunction, or maybe it is an empty mag? Let's remember, you are running on adrenaline and, in the heat of the fight, you don't have time to change the tactics you have trained with. So, how will you train?...

Here's my question, in the scenario of training...
When you are presented with a malfunction, do you first perform tap-rack-bang and then move on to changing out the magazine? This can cost you valuable seconds in a life/death situation!
...or, do you immediately say "ditch that mag" (lot's of failures can be caused by the magazine), and go right for a new magazine? It takes another second vs. an IAD, but it is the most reliable.

 

[Jim Watson]

One of M. Ayoob's contacts in the training business recommended that.
Don't diagnose, reload. That gets rid of any bad ammo, a suspect magazine, and shucks and shakes out retained rounds or cases. Time not spent on figuring out what to do with a Class A, Type IV, section b. malfunction is better spent getting rid of everything that MIGHT be a problem and starting over. Deals with almost anything but a broken part.

 

[steveracer]

We are doing this in the Navy now. At E-SAMI (Expeditionary Small Arms Marksmanship Instructor) school, we went directly to reload for any malfunction.

 

[Schwing]

I developed the bad habit of counting my shots a long time ago. It is so ingrained in me that I know exactly when the mag is empty.

Still, something to think about.

 

[psyopspec]

The feel of an empty mag is pretty well ingrained at this point, and I'd surprise myself if I ever mistook it for a malfunction.

On the other hand, diagnosing the common types can save time and ammo. For a subjective example, if the gun doesn't go into battery, diagnosing it and banging the rear of the slide to get back in the fight is something I could do quicker than a reload.

In the end I don't think this particular aspect of gun fighting matters a great deal so long as one trains as they fight.

 

[Jeff White]

Here's my question, in the scenario of training...
When you are presented with a malfunction, do you first perform tap-rack-bang and then move on to changing out the magazine? This can cost you valuable seconds in a life/death situation!
...or, do you immediately say "ditch that mag" (lot's of failures can be caused by the magazine), and go right for a new magazine? It takes another second vs. an IAD, but it is the most reliable.

I've been doing "tap-rack-bang" for over 30 years. I couldn't even begin to guess how many training repetitions I have with that method.

A different technique has to have a huge advantage over a technique that I have been using for years and developed unconscious competency in before I will consider changing.

For example, back in the 90s our department's lead firearms instructor came back from a seminar and announced that none of us would ever use the slide stop again. From that day on out we were to drop the slide by pulling back on it. We were issued S&W 5906s at the time. There were several of us who had been initially trained years earlier using the slide stop. We cornered the instructor and asked him to explain what made the new method so much better then the way we had been trained that justified the time and effort to unlearn the old way and train enough on the new way that it became automatic? He couldn't really answer that question.

A few years later the dept switched to Glock 21s and it was no longer practical to use the slide stop, then I took the time to learn the new method. I was forced to by the size of the Glock slide stop and the size of the Glock 21.

I think that one should take a close look at the advantages of any new technique and weigh if it is worth the time it takes to unlearn the old way and relearn the new way. 5000+ correct repetitions to develop muscle memory. That's a lot of training time.

 

[Jenrick]

IAD, followed by unload-reload. Simply reloading will not fix ALL malfunctions, and in fact can induce some, such as double feeds, etc. Fully unloading the pistol, and then reloading it will fix basically everything you can do with a gun that doesn't require a tool or field stripping.

An IAD fixes 80%-90% (I've heard every number from 50% up to 99.99% so pick what makes you happy) of stoppages. It also has the advantage of being far faster then unload-reload (easily a couple of seconds). Unload-reload takes care of the rest. So if you want to be fully non-diagnostic, then it's the route to go.

So in order of operations:
"click" or mush
Tap-roll-rack- (IAD)
"click" or mush; if the slide locks back, then go straight to reload
Unload
-Lock the slide to rear
-Strip magazine
-Rack slide fully at least twice
Reload -self-explanatory

If you get a click at this point, your gun probably needs tools to fix it, or you have the worlds worst luck with dud rounds and bad mags.

-Jenrick

 

[X-Rap]

came back from a seminar

I have to laugh at that, doesn't matter what the discipline, one has to carefully watch those who go to seminars, they always seem to glom onto something and come home to change the world and reinvent the wheel.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I developed the bad habit of counting my shots a long time ago. It is so ingrained in me that I know exactly when the mag is empty.

Still, something to think about.

I used to do that when I was new. There are too many other things to think of, so I have stopped. I do get a rough estimate, in order to properly plan for a tactical reload (reloading when I want a fresh mag, not just when the last mag has emptied).

 

[Jeff White]

I do get a rough estimate, in order to properly plan for a tactical reload (reloading when I want a fresh mag, not just when the last mag has emptied).

I don't keep track of the rounds fired. I will do a tactical reload at a natural pause in the action when behind cover. I practice this in FOF training. I don't want to start another engagement with a partial magazine.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have done a tap rack bang a good deal. It often helps.

I have whacked the heel of the slide to attempt to drive home a FTRTB with much less success, it usually gets me only a sore hand.

Mostly what I have done is to work on magazine and ammo quality so I don't have to manage malfunctions.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I have been running into failures recently.

My favorite pistol has developed a habit of light striking

I have been double striking some rounds with effect, but am still doing research on what I should be doing. Normally, its Tap-Rack but...

I recorded a couple here:
[YOUTUBE]oKBpVOCZUdU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[strambo]

I do tap-rack, but I don't really think there is a "right" answer as there are pluses and minuses to any way you train. Simply training something in the first place puts you ahead of over 90% of gun owners, the 10% of exactly what you train is gravy.

That being said; since something like over 75% of gunfights happen in single digit feet, I feel reloading or malfunction clearing is the wrong answer at that range. Immediately close and go H2H or run. Fumbling with a non-operative gun ~6ft from the attacker will see you shot, stabbed, or beaten to death. During those crucial seconds, even a reload, you are doing absolutely nothing to injure the threat or even put any pressure on them in any way. They are completely free to do what they like, free pass for a second to 5+ seconds depending on what you are dealing with.

I have trained so that if my pistol runs dry or jams (induced by mixing in random empties) and I'm that close, I muzzle or slide strike the target w/o hesitation.

 

[The Alaskan]

Good question. I don't know the answer. It's never happened to me. I pull the trigger. The cylinder rotates, the hammer comes back and then falls...gun goes bang. It's never not happened that way.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I have to laugh at that, doesn't matter what the discipline, one has to carefully watch those who go to seminars, they always seem to glom onto something and come home to change the world and reinvent the wheel.

Amen...I have been a LEO over 20 years. It never fails that someone has a new way to shoot, do hand to hand, search a building, ect. They swear the old ways don't work as well. It's a major annoyance, especially on the firing range after learning something and doing it successfully for years .

 

[Jim Watson]

Good question. I don't know the answer. It's never happened to me. I pull the trigger. The cylinder rotates, the hammer comes back and then falls...gun goes bang. It's never not happened that way.

Then you have good guns, good ammo, and good luck.
I have seen revolvers tie up for several reasons and experienced a few of them.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I do tap-rack, but I don't really think there is a "right" answer as there are pluses and minuses to any way you train. Simply training something in the first place puts you ahead of over 90% of gun owners, the 10% of exactly what you train is gravy.

That being said; since something like over 75% of gunfights happen in single digit feet, I feel reloading or malfunction clearing is the wrong answer at that range. Immediately close and go H2H or run. Fumbling with a non-operative gun ~6ft from the attacker will see you shot, stabbed, or beaten to death. During those crucial seconds, even a reload, you are doing absolutely nothing to injure the threat or even put any pressure on them in any way. They are completely free to do what they like, free pass for a second to 5+ seconds depending on what you are dealing with.

I have trained so that if my pistol runs dry or jams (induced by mixing in random empties) and I'm that close, I muzzle or slide strike the target w/o hesitation.

Yep, that is a good point.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Anytime my pistol does not fire when I press the trigger I perform tap, rack (even when I shoot my pistol to slide lock).

If tap, rack fails to get the pistol running then, if the situation allows, I perform a Combat Reload.

If, while performing the Combat Reload, I cannot insert the magazine into the pistol then I put the spare magazine between the ring and pinky fingers of my firing hand, perform the immediate actions to clear a doublefeed, and finish the Combat Reload.