Man shot by irate resident for toilet-papering house

[TheFederalistWeasel]

raq war veteran toilet-papering house shot by irate resident in Lake Elsinore
AP ^ | Thursday December 30, 2004 |

LAKE ELSINORE, Calif. (AP) A soldier home after a year in Iraq was shot in the head and critically injured and another man was wounded by a resident who became enraged because they were part of a group toilet-papering homes in his neighborhood, investigators said.

Aubre Weldon, 34, was arrested and booked for investigation of assault with a deadly weapon after Thursday's 12:30 a.m. shooting, said Sgt. Earl Quinata of the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.

Sheriff's deputies found Daniel Alvarado, 25, with a wound to the head and Robert Limon, 22, with a grazing wound, the sergeant said. Both men, residents of Temecula, were taken to Inland Valley Hospital and Alvarado was later transferred in critical condition to Loma Linda University Medical Center.

Alvarado is in the U.S. Army and recently returned after a year in Iraq, according to television reports. He was due to go back in March, according to the reports. Quinata said he couldn't confirm whether Alvarado was in the Army.

Investigators said the victims were among a group of six people toilet-papering homes in the neighborhood. Weldon, whose home was targeted by the vandals, got into his car and hunted down the group, the sergeant said.

When the confronted by Weldon, the sergeant said, an argument escalated into the shooting. Sheriff's detectives were interviewing the four companions who were with the victims to determine what was said, Quinata said.

 

[molonlabe]

Daniel Alvarado, 25, with a wound to the head and Robert Limon, 22, with a grazing wound,

??????? I thought kids did this stuff. Don't people have a life?

 

[Sleeping Dog]

There's probably some pieces of the story that are missing.

Scenario: homeowner tells group to quit TPing house. Group threatens homeowner. Homeowner fears for life. Bang. Maybe a good shoot. Dunno.

I'm sure there's a lot more stupidity here than just shooting someone for throwing TP.

Regards.

 

[Ryan in the House]

That woman (Aubre IS a woman's name, right?) is a very VERY irresponsible gun owner, and should have her weapons taken away from her. You do not shoot a person because you are mad at them, you shoot a person because it's the absolute last step you can take to ensure your safety, or the safety of others. We can't trust people like that to have weapons. What happens if she gets angry on the road? Someone cuts her off, and they wind up going slower than she was... does that mean she should hang her handgun out the window, shoot out their tires, and then go up to them and shoot them in the face? I can see how she was angry, but that's no excuse.

When they say "the argument escalated," I wonder if that means there was serious physical contact involved. If there was, I might have to reconsider my position. I wonder why she couldn't just pull her gun out and scare those hoodlums, instead of just resorting to plugging them with bullets?

On a side note: I thought our army taught their soldiers discipline?

 

[R.H. Lee]

Somebody(s) used bad judgement. The moral of the story (for me) is to AVOID escalation, especially if you are armed.

 

[Sindawe]

Lessons to be learned here.

1. Don't TP other people's houses. The owner may not be appreciative of your skills in design and decoration.

2. Don't shoot folks TPing your house, it will get you talked about. Use a garden hose instead.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

Situations like this are where a BIG DOG comes in handy!!!

Open door to tell morons to quit TP’ing the house, dog runs past you out door gnaws on morons leg till cops arrive all the while you are “trying†to pull Cujo off the toilet paper artist.

Cop locks up TP Artist for criminal trespass or any local/state vandalism code/ordnance you may have

 

[beerslurpy]

If I found people TPing my house, I would just turn on the whole sprinkler system at once.

 

[Azrael256]

If I found people TPing my house

Catching them doing it is one thing. A window gets broken, or a roll hits the glass door and makes it rattle like crazy, I might be inclined to believe that there is a burglary going on. I step outside and see a handful of black-clad idiots and one of them makes a motion that, in my newly-awakened, startled, and night vision-less state appears threatening... bad things will happen. The law, at least around here, will be on my side.

But, this guy didn't do that. He hopped in the car and went to find them. I'm paying the police to do that for me. They can resolve the situation without this level of violence (hopefully). At the very least, you go yell at them, and if threatened, you hop in the car and speed off. They come after the car, then you shoot. You attempt to escape and they escalate, it's not your fault anymore. The homeowner was well within his rights to go yell at the idiots, but did he just hop out and start shooting, or did they cut off his route as he attempted to escape when the situation escalated?

I also find the title of the article misleading. "Iraq war vet" tends to imply that he is somehow a better person. I'll admit that he performed a great service to our country, but when he started acting like a criminal, he became just that. Adding it as a piece of biographical information is fine, but his status as a vet doesn't somehow change the fact that he was committing a crime.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Why are adults toilet-papering houses? I had more sense than that even at fifteen, for heaven's sake!

 

[Preacherman]

Oh, well, at least the cops will have a paper trail on this one...

 

[Eric Bryant]

This brings back memories of what happened to a fellow student in high school. Details are sketchy 'cause, well, I wasn't there, but it goes something as follows. A group of kids decided to TP a house, since one of them worked with the female occupant of the house. In the process, a car was also "saran wrapped". The soon-to-be shooting-victim (STBSV) rolls up to the scene in his car to talk with the perps of the TPing, at which point it's observed that one of the home's occupants is recording license-plate numbers. The STBSV is on a sports team and is the son of a vice-principal and therefore does not wish to get into trouble with the police, and walks up to the door to offer an apology. Moments later, he's shot in the face/head by a shotgun blast.

The male occupant of the home offers up a variety of excuses, such as "I didn't know it was loaded", "I forgot to unload it after my last hunting trip", "the safety was on", "it went off accidently as I was holding it at hip level", "I was scared", etc. Forensics shows that the homeowner fired the gun from a shouldered position and from behind a locked wooden door; the first indicates likely intent to use the weapon, the second that the shooter was not likely in any immediate danger from an unarmed skinny teenager standing outside the door.

One would think that this constitutes gross negligence (I don't see where this is premeditated murder, but it ain't exactly an accident, either). The man is found guilty of manslaughter and serves six months in the local minimum-security jail, and another six months in a halfway house before being released. I'm not sure that serving a longer sentence would have been of any help (certainly, it doesn't bring back people from the dead), but I don't think that the light sentence combined with the circle of lines and seeming lack of remorse by the defendant helped to advance support for gun rights and self-defense in this community.

I think Sindawe might be on to something.

 

[jefnvk]

"Iraq war vet" tends to imply that he is somehow a better person. I'll admit that he performed a great service to our country, but when he started acting like a criminal, he became just that.

Yep. It bothers me when news articles start trying to show how good the person was at one time, while simotaneously pushing under the rug that ther wre the instigators.

However, shooting someone that is TPing your house is out of line. Chasing them down is grounds, IMHO, for the death penalty (should the guy die).

 

[bobby68]

not that it is an excuse for the tp'ers, but it's not like they hurt anyone. I know it's wrong but it isn't malicious if they don't damage anything.

None of that is going to bring the dead back though... i hate to see stuff like this.

 

[Mixlesplick]

Eric Bryant

Was that the incident in Grand Haven? I also agree with Sindawe's comments.

 

[spartacus2002]

Oh, well, at least the cops will have a paper trail on this one...

 

[ojibweindian]

Sometimes, stupidity is terminal.

 

[hightech]

Avoidance

In a case like this the question is who is the aggressor and when? When the vet and associates started TP the house they were the aggressors. When the vet & assoc left the house they were no longer the aggressors. When the home owner began to chase the vet & assoc down he became the aggressor. At this point the homeowner no longer has the right to self defense. Now the confrontation gets murky. Both groups have contributed to the confrontational situation. Now to declare self defense the home owner must disengage from the confrontation, declare his intent to disengage, and retreat to disengage. If the home owner is pursued and is in fear of death or bodily harm he may use deadly force. This is most difficult to prove in a court of law. You usually must have multiple witnesses that are un impeachable. ALL WAYS avoid the physical confrontation if possible. It is much cheaper physically, emotionally, and financially.

 

[Ol' Badger]

Do What My Neighbor does!

Uses his Daisy Red Ryder. One night the locale dummies were TP'ing his place. He cracked the window and procedeed to snipe away. He said they didnt catch on until the third shot! He advised that he wouldn't shoot any of the girls, because of the softness, but the first guy caught it in the back of the head.

 

[Eric Bryant]

Eric Bryant

Was that the incident in Grand Haven? I also agree with Sindawe's comments.

Yup. That was about a dozen years ago, so my memory may not be 100% (or even 50%) accurate. It's just stuck with me through the years as an example of firearms irresponsibility. I know I was taught to handle a firearm with more respect.

 

[publius]

Sheriff's deputies found Daniel Alvarado, 25, with a wound to the head and Robert Limon, 22, with a grazing wound

OK, clearly someone needs to operate some kind of entertainment establishment out in Lake Elsinore. 25 years old and TPing houses? If he doesn't make it, that's a Darwin Award.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Oh, well, at least the cops will have a paper trail on this one...

That's a really crappy pun, Preacherman.

 

[duckslayer]

That's a really crappy pun, Preacherman.

I dunno, I thought it was punny

 

[Nehemiah Scudder]

Now, now. Let's not get on a roll with this stuff. We should wipe it from our memory, and resume our charmin lives.

 

[HankB]

ADULTS TP-ing houses? For crying out loud, most people outgrow that sort of thing in junior high school!

Chasing someone down - armed, and ready to use deadly force - for TP-ing a house? Ridiculous.

Maybe they're passing out stupid pills at the mall in that town, and both sides took a double dose . . .

(And some of the other comments only amounted to 2/3 of a pun . . . P.U. )