Man's Death in Fight With Cincinnati Cops Probed

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TheeBadOne

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104467,00.html

CINCINNATI — The mayor of Cincinnati said a videotape shows police officers were defending themselves when they used metal nightsticks to repeatedly strike a 350-pound black man, who later died after the confrontation Sunday.

The cause of the death of Nathaniel Jones, 41, was under investigation. But preliminary autopsy results showed he had an enlarged heart, and his blood contained cocaine and PCP, or "angel dust," both of which can cause bizarre or aggressive behavior, Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said.

After seeing the video, which was taped by a camera on a police cruiser, Mayor Charlie Luken rejected activists' demand that he force police Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. to resign.

"What I saw was a 400-pound man violently attacking a police officer in a manner that put the lives of police officers at risk," Luken said Monday. "While the investigations will continue, there is nothing on those tapes to suggest that the police did anything wrong."

Black activists say the death was another example of brutality involving Cincinnati police. The fatal shooting of an unarmed black man by a white police officer in April 2001 prompted three nights of rioting in the city.

"How many of our people have to die before the city decides to do something about it?" said Nathaniel Livingston Jr. of the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati.

The officers who were at the scene Sunday -- five whites and one black -- were placed on administrative leave, which is policy while investigators examine any police encounter that results in a death.

Luken said he agreed with the initial police assessment that the officers who struggled with Jones defended themselves as they were trained to do when attacked.

The president of the police union said Jones threw the officers around like "rag dolls."

An employee at a fast-food restaurant called 911 early Sunday to report that a man had passed out on the grass outside. Emergency personnel arrived and reported that the man was awake and "becoming a nuisance," according to police radio transmissions.

The first two officers to arrive, Baron Osterman and James Pike, were shown on the video striking Jones after he was warned to stay back. Jones then lunged at one of the two white officers and knocked him down. The officers kept yelling "put your hands behind your back" as they struggled to handcuff him.

They called for an ambulance when Jones appeared to be in distress. He died within minutes of arriving at University Hospital, Assistant Chief Richard Janke said.

The Cincinnati chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People called for changes in police use of force.

"If proper procedure means that you can use that kind of force to clobber people repeatedly who are clearly disarmed, then there's something wrong with the policy," said Calvert Smith, chapter president.

Black activist groups staged an economic boycott of Cincinnati after the 2001 shooting of Timothy Thomas, 19, who was wanted on prior charges of fleeing police when he ran from officers. Officer Stephen Roach shot him in a dark alley and was later cleared at trial of criminal charges.

A federal investigation of that shooting, requested by the city, resulted in Cincinnati's April 2002 agreement to tighten policies regarding use of force and to improve handling of citizen complaints against the police.

Last February, a white officer chased and fatally shot a black man who was spotted running from a store that had been broken into, police said. The police, Hamilton County prosecutor and the Citizen Complaint Authority review panel concluded that the shooting was justified because the suspect was beating the officer with his nightstick.
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http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/2673984/detail.html

According to a statement from the Hamilton County coroner, Jones had a cocaine and PCP in his system at the time of his death.


Also, Jones had a "markedly enlarged heart, consistent with hypertensive heart disease," the coroner said.

The investigation revealed that Jones "had linear bruises on his right calf, right thigh, right buttock and right flank, but there was no evidence of transmission of force to internal organs," the coroner said.
 
The investigation revealed that Jones "had linear bruises on his right calf, right thigh, right buttock and right flank, but there was no evidence of transmission of force to internal organs," the coroner said.
Sounds like some officers were paying attention during their intermediate weapons training.

I saw the video. Looks very clean.

Of course, there'll be rioting soon enough.

Mike
 
http://www.msnbc.com/news/999853.asp?0cv=CB10
Black activists said Jones’ death was another example of brutality by Cincinnati police. The fatal shooting of an unarmed black man by a white officer in April 2001 set off three nights of rioting.
“How many of our people have to die before the city decides to do something about it?†said Nathaniel Livingston Jr. of the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati.
Coronach: Sadly, I'll have to agree with you.
 
He attacked the cops 1st. He got the beating he deserved!

Cops dident kill him, he kiled himself, with all the drugs in his system.
 
This is what I wrote in another forum about the incident..

I just saw the video. The officers were justified in the amount of force used on Jones. It was clear that he went after the officers. They were in a hell of a dangerous scene. If Jones had been able to subdue one or both of the officers, they might not have made it home that night.
Also, I noticed a couple of things. They were clearly yelling at Jones to put his hands behind his back,to get down,to lay down. At no time were they name calling,or baiting him.
And while using the batons on him,they never hit him on or around the head and face,all the blows were around the body. Their firearms stayed in their holsters,at no time did they show intent to unholster,but if he had started to get the upper hand,I'd say they would have have been justified to shoot. Kudo's to their training officer.
Race should not be a factor in this incident. But I'm sorry to say it will be
 
I have seen this tape, and I think that the cops were justified until the point when they started spearing their attacker. The spearing technique they used is pretty dangerous as it concentrates a lot of energy at the point of impact, greatly increasing the probability of critical damage.
 
The spearing technique they used is pretty dangerous as it concentrates a lot of energy at the point of impact, greatly increasing the probability of critical damage.
Source?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that its not going to be an ASP or Monadnock approved training material. ;)

Mike
 
"If proper procedure means that you can use that kind of force to clobber people repeatedly who are clearly disarmed, then there's something wrong with the policy," said Calvert Smith, chapter president.
Clearly disarmed? I'd have to say that the size difference between Nathaniel Jones and the officers makes him a deadly weapon.

Riots or not, we'll be hearing about this for a while yet.
 
dont chime in on that size bs. so the man was fat that doesnt mean he can tear them in half. like he can thin down at the drop of a hat. cant stand that size is a weapon bs.

the man that died was whacked out of his mind on cocaine and pcp. cops have it clean though wouldnt be suprised by riots.
 
dont chime in on that size bs. so the man was fat that doesnt mean he can tear them in half. like he can thin down at the drop of a hat. cant stand that size is a weapon bs.
While I agree with your other comment, I have to disagree here. While the fight doesn't always go to the strong or the race to the swift, thats the way to lay your money. Sure, just 'cause he's big doesn't mean he knows how to fight, or is even that strong, but try wrestling with anything that weighs 350lbs. The guy was a threat, plain and simple. He was a threat if he was 150lbs and took a swing at an officer...if they couldn't get him cuffed, they went through the use-of-force routine like a textbook. Physical assault on a PO, verbal commands, attempts to restrain punctuated by strikes to appropriate non-lethal areas and immediate return to attempts to restrain. Textbook.

Mike
 
they went through the use-of-force routine like a textbook. Physical assault on a PO, verbal commands, attempts to restrain punctuated by strikes to appropriate non-lethal areas and immediate return to attempts to restrain. Textbook.
It's also been reported that OC was used with no effect (possibly due to the drugs?)
 
Item: The man outweighed the cops by a considerable margin.

Item: The man attacked the cops first.

Item: The man was high on PCP.

From what I know and what I've seen, I think the cops were justified.
 
I saw nothing wrong with the way the police officers defended themselves. Why is it not racist if someone suggests that certain races should be able to treat others this way with no consequences. The rioting will probably happen. The families of anyone who might be killed should sue the government for not allowing CCW.
 
The only racist comments that I heard were made by Jones at the start of the tape (right before he attacked).

In addition to the drugs in his system, someone who is 5'9" tall & weighing 350# probably doesn't that strong of a heart in the first place (heart attack waiting to happen). Not really surprising that he had a heart attack given the stress of the situation. Sadly, the "activists" response isn't all that surprising either.

Greg
 
The title of this thread matches what they were broadcasting on the news here and it is very VERY wrong. The man did NOT die in the fight with cops. He died in custody. He died in custody after the fight with cops, after fighting with paramedics after they tried helping him, after he collapsed and they were called for his benefit. He did not start off the incident in the peak of physical condition.

Bodily damage to the fat guy was probably quite minor compared to the stress his heart endured during the conflict and as a result of the drugs, his weight, etc.
 
There will be an autopsy to determine the actual cause of death, but in my book the man casued his own demise...Poor physical condition, illegal drugs in his system, combative w/ paramedics, and put up a mean fight w/ 6 police officers.
This will be a politically charged situation for the mayor & police chief but should go away after enough activists get their respective TV face time :rolleyes:
 
The truth will come out in the near future. Keep in mind what everyone saw on TV was the edited police video for the media. I still believe that the police need to make better use of less lethal approaches. The police failed to realize that someone on PCP will not be able to follow any directions regardless of how hard or frequent you beat him. The proper approach would have been a electrical shock,. Tranquilizer gun or Ativan injection would have saved this person’s life,. It typically takes 3-4 hours for someone to de-escalate from these situations.

An ambulance and fire department would have been a better bet than the police as this was clearly not a lucid man.
 
Come on Angus, give me a break here...

The proper approach would have been a electrical shock,. Tranquilizer gun or Ativan injection would have saved this person’s life,.

An ambulance and fire department would have been a better bet than the police as this was clearly not a lucid man.

Do you mean to tell me that the police should have just stood around and waited for the ambulance to show up while this guy took a couple of swings at them? The police in this case DIDN'T use a "lethal" approach...the suspects death resulted from poor health and illegal drugs in his system, not from the baton blows. The tape clearly shows the officers making a concerted effort to avoid striking him in the head...the cops acted correctly in this situation.

Doesn't matter though, cause the riots will follow anyway (supposed to be a little warmer around here the next couple of days). The "activists" in Cincy look for any opportunity to stir the pot and get trouble started. They are already screaming racism and calling for the firing of the chief of police. The only thing that might save the riots is the fact that the tape clearly shows the suspect attacking the police first...but who knows, racial issues are very highly charged in Cincy.
 
I still believe that the police need to make better use of less lethal approaches. The police failed to realize that someone on PCP will not be able to follow any directions regardless of how hard or frequent you beat him. The proper approach would have been a electrical shock,. Tranquilizer gun or Ativan injection would have saved this person’s life,. It typically takes 3-4 hours for someone to de-escalate from these situations.
:scrutiny:

I'm torn between thinking this must be a joke, or that you're serious.

1. Striking someone in the thigh with a PR-24 is a less-lethal approach.

2. The commands are issued in case the suspect is lucid and of a mind to comply, so that he knows what is required of him to make the struggle stop. What are they supposed to do, let him go? "Gee, Bob. He sure is out of his mind on something. I guess we have to let him kick our butts now."

3. You're cool with juicing him a few 100,000 volts though? mmmmm-kay. Thats always good for a heart condition. FWIW, I am too...but if you actually watch the video it evolves pretty quickly from "hey buddy, how you doin?" to "get back!" to a real rodeo. Even assuming Cinci PD has tasers, there was no chance to employ them before he tried to land a haymaker on Officer Friendly.

4. Tranquilizer gun? That is a poor idea on so many different levels that I cannot begin to list them all. Lets just suffice it to say this: they don't show you on Animal Planet how many times they accidentally OD the cheetah, and thats with a known body mass and a creature that is known to not be a walking pharmacy. :scrutiny:

5. Ambulance would have been better, eh? Well, that was Plan A, but he decided to become combative with them.

Mike :rolleyes:
 
The proper approach would have been a electrical shock

I disagree.......

I'm thinking .45 acp.....2 to the chest, 1 to the head.

End of confrontation!!
 
Looked good to me, for all the stated reasons - though I'd love to read a LEOs comments on the their crappy PRC-24 technique - they were essentially beating him with the handle end, GIVING the man the very good opportunity to grab and take their baton from them - the handle is there for several uses / techniques, and it is surely easier to retain the piece when YOU are holding the crosspiece, have that additional tugging and rotational leverage.

And I agree, the Usual Suspects will be racing for the camera limelight in the next couple days, and by the weekend there'll be some form of Million Moron March about the matter.

And did anyone else notice near the beginning of the tape the Target saying 'let me show you something my momma showed me' as he was reaching / lunging for the officer on the right?
 
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EMS or Fire won`t even approach the guy until he`s subdued. Of course I never policed on the planet Xenon either so what do I know?:rolleyes:
 
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