Man's Death in Fight With Cincinnati Cops Probed

[Balog]

mp5man1 wrote:

because the citizens put their trust in us to defend them.

As one citizen to another, I don't put any trust in any one but myself to protect me. Following quote taken from http://www.gunfacts.info

95% of the time police arrive too late to prevent a crime or arrest the suspect.
Witkin, Gordon, Guttman, Monika and Lenzy, Tracy. “This is 911 ... please hold.†U.S. News & World Report,
June 17, 1998

As to the issue at hand, I've gotta say I can't see any problem w/ the cops actions. I'd have shot the fat bugger.

 

[Mark Tyson]

Homicide doesn't mean murder. Cases of self defense, legal intervention and execution are all homicides.

 

[mp5man1]

I certainly won’t disagree with you on self protection in fact I wish more people thought that way. But for the ones that don’t and even the ones that do we still have a job to do.

 

[Black92LX]

Black92LX you forgot to add that those racial comments he was uttering at the officers was just in fun...

didn't hear about this.

 

[Coronach]

Yeah, if you listen to the cruiser audio, immediately prior to "Skipper" (who is such a nice man, you know) punching the officer, you hear him calling them "redneck whiteboys" (IIRC). Thats ok, though...cops put up with worse every day. I'm sure every cop reading this is more concerned about his actions than his utterances.

And yeah, this is a nice case-in-point. Every person who ends up being shot, "beaten" or killed by the police is, by the time you get to press, a wonderful human being, a kind, loving spirit, and a shining example of everything noble and good in humanity. Or, if the subject's associates cannot say that with a straight face, he was at least "turning his life around."

Just remember this the next time you hear about one of our pillars of the community struck down in his prime by LEOs. Dunn't mean he cannot be all that, just means that he probably isn't.

Mike

 

[Sergeant Bob]

Some of the media whoores are having a field day with this one. I think some of them are trying very hard to turn this into another Rodney King scenario! I heard Wolfie Blister on CNN introducing "The lawyer for Nathaniel Jones, the man who was beaten to death by Cincinnati police".

Some on the city council are peeved at Chief Streicher for defending his men!
City Council members livid over release of information

The Cincinnati Enquirer

DOWNTOWN - A Cincinnati City Council majority, frustrated with the police department's handling of the Nathaniel Jones incident, responded Wednesday by clamping down on information city officials release.

Five council members - led by Democrat Laketa Cole - asked City Manager Valerie Lemmie to develop new policies on the dissemination of information, and to submit those policies to City Council for approval.

The new policies would include the release of police cruiser tapes, statements, news conferences and appearances by city officials on television or radio.

Cole said she didn't want Police Chief Tom Streicher publicly defending his officers before all the facts were in.

"While I have refrained from making a judgment, I expect you to do the same," she told the chief during a four-hour council meeting Wednesday. It was the second meeting since the Sunday morning incident.

Streicher was not given a chance to respond.

Christopher Smitherman, a Charterite councilman on the job just three days, attacked the police chief for putting out inaccurate and premature information.

"I don't want to hear anyone using 400 pounds in the media, because he wasn't. He was 350 pounds," Smitherman said. "This is an example of what's dividing the city, and why we can't get the truth."

He also said it was wrong for Streicher to talk about the Hamilton County coroner's findings - that Jones had intoxicating amounts of cocaine and the drug PCP in his system - before the coroner released his final report.

"I want to make it very clear that I am a newly elected official, and I will not tolerate, ever, insubordination," Smitherman told the chief. "I am one of the members of the board of directors of the City of Cincinnati. Last time I looked at it, I am Chief Streicher's boss."

<snip>

I sure hope he's not counting on some of these self important, petty little Bozo's for backup.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

catch and release

to bad the police could not of lightly stunned him and had "Scotty" beam him directly into Jesse Jackson's office suite.

Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones, 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Cincinnati's newest Media Clown!

Sgt Bob

Where to begin?

Christopher Smitherman, a Charterite councilman on the job just three days, attacked the police chief for putting out inaccurate and premature information.

"I don't want to hear anyone using 400 pounds in the media, because he wasn't. He was 350 pounds," Smitherman said. "This is an example of what's dividing the city, and why we can't get the truth."

Good to know he's into what's important...

"I want to make it very clear that I am a newly elected official, and I will not tolerate, ever, insubordination," Smitherman told the chief. "I am one of the members of the board of directors of the City of Cincinnati. Last time I looked at it, I am Chief Streicher's boss."

This guy's got to be just a treat to work with.

After Democratic Vice Mayor Alicia Reece said it was "unacceptable" that city officials did not personally deliver a copy of White Castle surveillance pictures to her home Tuesday, City Manager Valerie Lemmie broke down in tears apologizing.

I think we're begining to see why Cincinat's a "troubled city"...

 

[Harry Tuttle]

http://smithermanforcouncil.com/website/aboutBio.html

Again his skills for long-term and thorough planning led him to an optimal situation to continue his education at minimal costs. This time meals, housing, and tuition were covered. Christopher changed direction away from the field of criminology. He completed a master's degree in Guidance and Counseling which balances his criminology background well. In conjunction with the graduate courses, Christopher and a friend created and began facilitating "Let's Talk About Race" workshops. The intent was to get individuals talking honestly and openly about their race-related opinions. The workshops continue to be conducted, most recently at Xavier University last fall.

 

[Sergeant Bob]

TBO

"I am one of the members of the board of directors of the City of Cincinnati. Last time I looked at it, I am Chief Streicher's boss."

I heard this guy saying that on tape on the radio. What an arrogant, power hungry little twit!

"I want to make it very clear that I am a newly elected official, and I will not tolerate, ever, insubordination ,"

in·sub·or·di·nate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ns-bôrdn-t)
adj.
Not submissive to authority.

Key word here is submissive. What the h*** kind of police department does he think he's going to have with a submissive chief at the head of it? Leaders are by definition not submissive, and a police department is severely weakened by weak leadership.

Cole said she didn't want Police Chief Tom Streicher publicly defending his officers before all the facts were in.

By the time she decides all the facts are in, those officers would probably be lynched by the media, and the city on fire! It was imperative that he make a statement in their defense, ASAP. He must stand by his officers and not allow them to become political cannon fodder.
These cops have been walking on egg shells since all the trouble two years ago, and now they want them to walk barefoot on broken glass.

Isn't this the beginning of the Flu (blue?) season?
I think Streicher will (should) probably resign after this is all over and get a job somewhere he might be appreciated.

 

[Hawkeye755]

Just saw the aunt and uncle of Mr Jones on GMA this morning talking about how the police taunted their nephew into a violent rage. They believe that the polie instigated the whole thing so that they could beat him.

The truly sad part was that no one asked them to provide any proof. There is more video tape of this incident and witnesses than normal.

 

[TheeBadOne]

The handling of this incident only lends credence to those who say 'Race War' is coming.

 

[Litlman]

Can we say "MEDIA CIRCUS"!!!!!!

 

[gruven]

Just saw this article this morning. I guess there will be a lot more on the way in the coming weeks.

Link

 

[Black92LX]

Christopher Smitherman, a Charterite councilman on the job just three days, attacked the police chief for putting out inaccurate and premature information. "I don't want to hear anyone using 400 pounds in the media, because he wasn't. He was 350 pounds," Smitherman said. "This is an example of what's dividing the city, and why we can't get the truth." He also said it was wrong for Streicher to talk about the Hamilton County coroner's findings - that Jones had intoxicating amounts of cocaine and the drug PCP in his system - before the coroner released his final report. "I want to make it very clear that I am a newly elected official, and I will not tolerate, ever, insubordination," Smitherman told the chief. "I am one of the members of the board of directors of the City of Cincinnati. Last time I looked at it, I am Chief Streicher's boss."

Guess who is this guys BOSS, ME. and this arrogant ******* is going to be getting a call from his boss

I support cheif streicher he is an excelent cheif. i hope to work under him one day. everytime they rip streicher yet he did absolutley nothing wrong in supporting his officers.

gruven- wow that article was a bunch of crap. where do people come up with this crap. i don't understand how people missed the part of the video where he attacked the officer. and the numerous times he tries to taske their batons.

 

[Gmac]

Man this is FUBAR! I think the entire police force should call in sick for a month and let the intellectual cripples on city council try to maintain order.Thank God I don't live in Cincinati!

 

[mrtgbnkr]

My email to Good Morning America...just to see if they have the spine to answer.

I was just curious why, during the interview with the family of Nathaniel Jones, the man who died in the custody of Cincinnati police, the question wasn't asked if the family had any PROOF that the police had baited him into a confrontation. I've watched the video several times and it is an example of textbook use of pain compliance techniques by the Cincinnati Police. The constant references to Mr. Jones having been "beaten to death" on GMA and in the rest of the media paint an inaccurate picture of events. Even according to the Hamilton County Coroner, the STRUGGLE is what killed the suspect, not the blows from the police. There were bruises on his lower body, but none to the head or where vital organs would have been impacted. Unfortunately, the media and the "activists" in Cincinnati are using this as an opportunity to incite racial problems in a city that has seen more than their share. A simple presentation of ALL of the facts would paint an entirely different picture.

Mark
Dayton, OH

 

[Sportcat]

I'll eat my cell phone if they respond to you. Unfortunately some intern will read it, log it, and then delete it.

 

[DadOfThree]

"Everyone he met, that he touched, loved him," said his aunt, Diane Payton. "He was never mean."

I wonder if the officer that Mr. Jones "touched" in the face loved him?

 

[tommytrauma]

The truth will come out in the near future. Keep in mind what everyone saw on TV was the edited police video for the media. I still believe that the police need to make better use of less lethal approaches. The police failed to realize that someone on PCP will not be able to follow any directions regardless of how hard or frequent you beat him. The proper approach would have been a electrical shock,. Tranquilizer gun or Ativan injection would have saved this person’s life,. It typically takes 3-4 hours for someone to de-escalate from these situations.

An ambulance and fire department would have been a better bet than the police as this was clearly not a lucid man.

Angus, I'm a firefighter / paramedic and I spent several years as a MP. You are completely off target here. There are reasons why "tranquilizer guns" aren't used on humans, and there is absolutely no way any medic is going to try to administer any benzo or other drug to a violent, unrestrained "patient" while the police look on. Your comments are as well intentioned and as off base as those of people who believe cops should simply shoot guns out of perps hands.

What, are you going to train cops to administer meds that paramedics aren't supposed to administer? I think a Star Trek phaser on stun would be more realistic

Destructo, paramedics do carry and administer Ativan or a similar benzo. We use it to treat seizures, for sedation before painful proceedures like cardioversion and pacing, and occasionally for behavioral / psychological issues. I have administered meds to large, violent patients, AFTER THEY WERE RESTRAINED. The idea that we should try to do so without the patient being restrianed is ludicrous though.

People who are arguing the appropriateness of the cops actions in this case have simply never been in such a situation themselves.

 

[Balog]

Wow, that Lew Rockwell piece is astoundingly stupid.

I don't want cops breaking laws.
I don't want a federal police force.

HOWEVER....
This is not the case to argue those points. He STARTED the fight by ATTACKING the cops, who were simply inquiring if he was ok. He wasn't beaten to death, he died from the strain put on a weak heart. Stupid stupid stupid:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[BlackManWithAGun]

My two cents...

“What this town needs is an enema†– Jack Nicholson as the Joker, Batman 1989

Cincinnati has a problem bigger than the 350 lb. Nathaniel Jones that recently died after his arrest. I’m tired of the video clip being repeated on national news over and over again. It’s ugly. You can’t polish a turd. In the state that had a race riot as early as 1829, and one during the years 1904, 1906 and 2001, Ohio is tough. Remember Kent State during the Viet Nam era?

In the police academy, we had an officer from the US Mint police we called Big John. He was over 400 lbs. and at least 6’ 8. He could have been Shaq’s uncle. Regular Smith & Wesson handcuffs didn’t fit around his mammoth sized wrist. We had to buy some “Peerless†cuffs or use two sets when he was role playing the bad guy. And trying to take Big John down was frustrating. Made us glad he was on our side. This is politically incorrect but fat boys don’t respond well to the pressure points they teach in the police academy like the lean, body builder types do during a fight. Even when we used batons (padded) to whack Big John, we lost until he got winded. I expect all those factors recreated themselves in Cincinnati with Mr. Jones and the police. And don’t get me started on PCP stories (horse tranquilizer). I remember when my cousin dislocated his shoulder while in cuffs and broke a police cruiser window from the backseat of the vehicle after being arrested. That changes the whole equation.

I have sympathy for both the family of Mr. Jones and anyone that has to work in law enforcement in Ohio. There are two cultures there that are at odds with one another --one black and one blue. Something needs to be done. It is easy to get lost in the anger when folks are feeding you the facts that fifteen African Americans have died with encounters with the other since 1995. Then as a cop, you have work in a hostile environment every day both from the community you serve and the managers that push their political agendas on you. Most of the fifteen were known criminals but that doesn’t count when you aren’t wearing the badge. I’m just a sideline commentator. I wasn’t there.

I’m not from Ohio but I know “stank†when I smell it. Leadership in that city needs to hire a public relations firm to help heal the city, educate its population about race, police and freedom and guard itself from the “clericsâ€, groups and individuals who will undoubtedly rush in to put out the fire with gasoline. I’m with the Cincinnati PD and the Joker on this one.

 

[Sportcat]

Amen!

 

[foghornl]

From my limited LEO experiences, 25+ years back, PCP is MAJOR BAD NEWS. I am not a medical/chemical person, but as I remember, PCP pretty much shuts down pain sensors, and aggravates feelings of tension, nervousness and anxiety. And if PCP user has tendencies toward "multiple personality" or paranoa, those are greatly exagerated.

Mr. Jones did not die at the hands of the Cincy PD, but due to his poor life choices and state of health.

 

[greyhound]

My take on this is that it has not much to do with Nathaniel Jones; it has to do with the overall anger of the African-American community towards the CPD. Therefore, logic won't work, this is totally emotional.

Egged on of course by the usual profiteers.....