Manual of Arms?

[Lawdawg45]

You got a source for this?

I'll work on a link. In LE they rely on the collective data of the FBI, and while Mr. Ayoob is a reputable writer/shooter, I would not compare the two in the ability to collect and disseminate data. Also, this training mindset hasn't changed in academy teaching over the years, they're still suggesting that Officers who carrying a Glock on duty, either carry that same weapon off duty or a smaller framed model, or for the ones carrying a 1911, they suggest a Sig P238 for off duty/BUG. I even saw this suggested a couple of weeks ago on the cable TV show "Handguns".

LD

 

[AFDavis11]

I had this same mentality drilled into me at my Academy. It is hard to source because officer safety issues are close hold department information.

I think most of these problems cropped up during big department transitions.

When it comes to gunfighting it's always hard to find survivors that made mistakes . . .

 

[wildehond]

People have been found after the firefight and not knowing what happened to their weapon. Other managed to remember the smallest details.

It differs from person to person. You decide what you are going to do.

I personally prefer to stick to one type of firearm for high stress situations for the simple reason it is one less thing to think about.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Just me...

I haven't found any problem transitioning between guns as different as an HK P7M13, 1911, SIG, Glock...or Centennial for that matter. Of course, I shoot them all a lot, so I'd guess that helps.

I have to admit that S&W/Beretta-type safeties and heel-style magazine releases befuddle me...so I don't carry those type of pistols. Maybe if I trained more with them they'd also become "second nature"...but frankly, I just don't like them.

Makes sense ot have a working familiarity with many guns. As has been said, "What makes you think you're going to get to fight with your gun?"

 

[psyopspec]

I cant tell you how many times I have been a range coach in the military for persons who I would described as very familiar and experienced with the M9...yet these same indivuduals have failed to disengage the safety on the M9 during timed quals. These timed qualification events can fairly be described as stress-free. I am willing to bet that this occurance is more common than one might think.

I wouldn't be comfortable with my defensive tools if I went off the military definition of "very familiar and experienced." The first time I handled an M9 as a PFC it was weird and unfamiliar. A while later when I commissioned and knew I was likely to be issued one and carry it most days as my primary weapon, I bought a 92FS and got about as good with it as I could be; drawing, magazine changes, dry firing, transition, etc. It's not my favorite pistol, but I figured that if it could be my last line of defense it might as well be a tool I was well-versed with.

I've seen plenty of DA shots put into the dirt less than halfway to the target, triggers pulled with safety on, and even an ND from an E-7. Uncle Sam ultimately qualified all these folks. Military qualification does not equal expertise.

 

[Creature]

I wouldn't be comfortable with my defensive tools if I went off the military definition of "very familiar and experienced."

I thought I was very clear when I wrote:

I have been a range coach in the military for persons who I would describe as very familiar and experienced with the M9

 

[Certaindeaf]

I like how Miculek can switch seamlessly from a wheelgun to a P-08.

 

[Zach S]

It depends on your training.

This can be a very big issue. Or, it can be a total non-issue.

Agreed. I can drive the wheels off of both of my cars. My 93 Caprice qualifies as a land yacht that usually wont fit in a parking space. My 91 Accord is more like a gokart. I've had to avoid accidents in both, and have had both at their limit.

Despite having the same seats in both, the cars feel so different that I can tell them apart without thinking. I don't look for the clutch pedal in the Caprice, and I don't automatically start to correct the Honda if I have to swerve to keep from T boning the idiot that just pulled out in front of me. Neither car has ABS, but panic stops aren't an issue in either one.

Its the same thing with my firearms. I swipe the safety off when I pick a rifle up, and swipe it back on as I'm setting it down or slinging it. I've never swiped my ARs safety when handling my AK or vise-versa.

But to be fair, my firearms differ as much as my Caprice and Honda. As far as pistols go, I have 1911s, a Glock 19, a Kahr P9 and a Taurus Model 85. There's really no mistaking one for another.

I do tend to avoid similar guns that have a different manual of arms though, take for example a PT92 and a 92FS.

 

[psyopspec]

I thought I was very clear when I wrote:

I have been a range coach in the military for persons who I would describe as very familiar and experienced with the M9

You very clearly called them familiar and experienced right before you very clearly pointed out that they failed to properly manipulate the weapon. Chalk it up to different definitions, I suppose.

 

[Certaindeaf]

What did Elmer say? I forget.

 

[Lawdawg45]

I haven't found any problem transitioning between guns as different as an HK P7M13, 1911, SIG, Glock...or Centennial for that matter. Of course, I shoot them all a lot, so I'd guess that helps.

I have to admit that S&W/Beretta-type safeties and heel-style magazine releases befuddle me...so I don't carry those type of pistols. Maybe if I trained more with them they'd also become "second nature"...but frankly, I just don't like them.

Makes sense ot have a working familiarity with many guns. As has been said, "What makes you think you're going to get to fight with your gun?"

The real question is, have you been in a gun fight and had to transition with these weapons? That's where the problems begin to manifest themselves.

LD