OK.....manual safety or no?

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In the August issue of Guns magazine, Massad Ayoob talks about how carrying a Walther-style decock/safety "off" can backfire if the safety is bumped to the "on" position. The handgun under discussion was a Beretta 92FS.

In the article, he uses the case of two police officers dealing with a feral dog. "A" carried his gun on-safe, so he automatically flipped the safety off and fired. "B" usually carried his off-safe and trained that way. Somehow, his safety was engaged, and under the stress of the event, he didn't release the safety, and just pulled a dead trigger. food for thought.
 
Plus if you ride the safety/shoot high thumbs with the USP there is always the chance that you can go into partial decock and the weapon won't fire. I don't have this problem because the grip is so big, I simply can't grip it with high thumbs.

Changing the variant would nullify this, but won't help the ergonomics issue.
 
safeties

I grew up with revolvers, so I like Sa/DA autos with external hammers.

I think a hammer in its rest position is a good safety, but I like a secondary safety that is easy and familar with me to use. I much prefer one near the trigger guard similar to a shotgun or rifle, just takes a namo second to flip. Not quite sure about the Berretta style decocker safety.

I see nothing wrong with carrying a pistol with its safety engaged, if you are familar with your regualr carry piece, lots of dry fire practice drills the safety will not slow you down, but if you should happen to loose you pistol that may slow down the BG enough for you to go to back up or flee the situation.

I've been hunting since I was 8, now I am thirty and I can only think of one time where I pulled up a gun on a bird and forgot to flip the safety. I still got the bird a nano second later. Practice, Practice, Practice.

charby
 
My big argument against Glocks as duty guns hinges on the lack of a manual safety, but not for the reason often cited (officers ND'ing by being morons), rather to keep from being shot with your own gun. In a concealed (CCW) environment, I don't see a manual safety as necessary, but a significant percentage of cops shot are shot with their own guns, and there are cases where perps were unable to work the snatched weapon due to being unable to figure out the safety mechanism, or just not expecting it to be there. A perp with a snatched gun that pulls the trigger and gets nothing gives the cop an extremely valuable opportunity to retake the top of the action-reaction curve by taking advantage of the momentary pause, and if lucky, momentary confusion of the would-be cop-killer.
are several documented cases of people that could have fired but didn't because they had the safety on.
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But I believe the cases where the owner of the weapon was unable to fire due to not being able to disengage the safety are extremely rare, whereas incidents where the criminal who snatched the weapon is unable to work the unfamiliar gun are far more prevelant. And anyone with any training at all on their weapon should have no trouble disengaging that safety. If it was a problem, we'd see it at IDPA matches where we have lots of new shooters. I have yet to see someone draw and fail to take their safety off, even the new people.

For cops, my thoughts go against Glocks and towards other platforms with manual safeties.

- Gabe
 
Manual Safety - Yes

My personal choice is that the gun I carry and the only guns I keep loaded, in a safe, at home have manual safeties. All revolvers are unloaded.

Why? I have kids, they have friends, kids and friends are inquisitive. Remember the story of the 4 year old, whose Cop daddy took off his gun, laid it on the table to hug his wife after a long day and the boy pulled the gun and shot him?

AD/NDs happen when guns are being handled. When my gun goes on my belt the safety gets turned off, when it is leaving my body (in holster or not) the safety gets turned on.

Now, I am not an LEO and I would have to step back and reconsider my choice if I were. However, I don't think that I would change the way I carry. When you get dressed to go out on the street don't you check to see if you have everything? And that your gun is loaded, with one in the chamber? How much harder is to check the position of the safety.

Pick a system and stick to it.

As usual my opinion is worth less than you paid for it.
Be Safe!
George
 
Was just shooting my Bersa 380. When safety is on, first trigger pull flips it off and gun fires on 2nd pull. If hammer is cocked, put safety on, pull trigger, will lower hammer w/o firing pistol. Still flips safety off, so, need to reapply. I like this system
 
I've had a Glock in my arsenal longer than any other gun make, yet I prefer an autoloader with a manual safety more and more now. I think it really comes down to personal preference, and then having made that conscious decision, the key is to train with the correct mindset.
 
In my opinion manual safety makes sense on SA guns, like 1911 and BHP. On all other types of guns manual safety is just something in the way. Decocker - yes, can come in handy. So for single action only guns manual safety is indeed needed and quite usefull, for DAO nothing is needed, and for SA/DA - decocker will do.
 
I don't think pistols without a manual safety are unsafe but I prefer one all the same. Safety is important and two safety systems(The one in your head and the weapon's) are better than one in my book. There is the possibility that you might not flick the safety off and you have to weight that in. But I think that possibility can be reduced to almost nil with training.
 
I prefer guns with short, light trigger pulls. These guns have manual safeties for the most part.
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Exactly. Long, heavy triggers stink. I like manual safeties because, well, that's how 1911s work.
 
Exactly. Long, heavy triggers stink. I like manual safeties because, well, that's how 1911s work.
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Bingo - guns with short, light trigger pulls = Single Action autos, like 1911 and BHP. And these types can use manual safety.
 
Bingo - guns with short, light trigger pulls = Single Action autos, like 1911 and BHP. And these types can use manual safety.
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And don't forget, under "short, light trigger pulls," we really must include the Glock!
 
But when you draw a 1911 from a holster, as opposed to picking it up from the bench, your thumb falls where the safety is. At least thats what happens to me.

My thumb goes UNDER the safety when I pick up a 1911. I keep mine in condition 1 at all times and I push it up automaticly just to make sure it's on.
Just a flip of the thump tp take it off as I bring it up to fire. As said before, sort of like pushing in the clutch before shifting gears.
Jack
 
IMO,

Press-trigger-go-bang guns (DA/SA, DAO or Glocky/P2000/etc) with LONG triggers, no.
Single action only with short triggers, yep.

Dunno why, just me I guess.
 
I'll be in a distinct minority here, but if I had my choice every handgun I own would have a manual safety, including the revolvers. I'm just talking about for me, because I just plain like manual safeties. Reason is, for the shooting I do (which includes trying to teach my kids and others basic handgun use) I'm a lot more concerned about accidental/negligent discharges than I am about the possibilities that: (1) my groups might be 1/2" larger, or (2) that I might ever need to pull the gun in self-defense and that I would then forget to switch the safety off.
 
Cocked and Locked is my favorite.

One could argue that the average 1911 has about three safeties not including the one between your ears.

No need for one on a revolver.. point and shoot. The heavier trigger pull is a pretty good safety on revo.. also use a holster that totally covers the trigger guard.

Keep your thumb on the down hammer in an SA revolver until ready to fire. When holstered, keep the hammer thong over the spur.
 
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