Chuck Perry
Member
torpid, what make is that buttstock cartridge carrier? Very nice!
Marlin .45-70 for deer?
- Thread starter ETXhiker
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JohnKSa said:
No, instead the flat leather butt actually spreads the "push" over a wider area (think of a hand blade karate chop replaced with a palm shove).
Look at the above pic and it'll be clearer than my words.
All in all, it's a mellow shootin' little big bore!
AStone
Member
Thanks for the opinions on recoil, folks. Very informative.
Torpid, that's one fine looking rifle (red dot or not).
Da'um.
Torpid, that's one fine looking rifle (red dot or not).
Da'um.
AStone
Member
Last edited:
Yeah!
About the hotter loads available...
Just to add a piece of info, the Buffalo Bore 405gr JFN load @ 2000fps is what you might call a 'highly convenient' loading for the Marlin Guide Gun, as its ballistics match it well. What i mean is:
With IRON sights, the 405gr JFN @2000fps loading gives a peak trajectory of +2inches at 79 yds and a far zero at exactly 100yds. The fact that 2 out of 2 Marlin GG's I have fired (one 45-70 and one 450 Marlin) have both had the iron sights EXACTLY dialed in at 100 yds to the point of making a clover leaf bullseye RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, made the whole experience so pleasant!(*)
To me and my thinking (FWIW) 100yds is about as far as I'd shoot with a 45-70 and iron sights, and at that range a nice 2-inch 'battle sight zero' means I just point and shoot at anything in range and be happy forever.
Just my thoughts.
(*) what I mean is: 1. take Marlin GG out of the box, clean as usual. 2. load with Buffalo Bore 405gr JFN, 3. Aim at any target out to 100yds 4. fire all shots exactly where the iron sights are lined up on 5. go home with big smile on your face. It doesnt get much better than that!
Hope that helps you decide to get one!
C-
About the hotter loads available...
Just to add a piece of info, the Buffalo Bore 405gr JFN load @ 2000fps is what you might call a 'highly convenient' loading for the Marlin Guide Gun, as its ballistics match it well. What i mean is:
With IRON sights, the 405gr JFN @2000fps loading gives a peak trajectory of +2inches at 79 yds and a far zero at exactly 100yds. The fact that 2 out of 2 Marlin GG's I have fired (one 45-70 and one 450 Marlin) have both had the iron sights EXACTLY dialed in at 100 yds to the point of making a clover leaf bullseye RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, made the whole experience so pleasant!(*)
To me and my thinking (FWIW) 100yds is about as far as I'd shoot with a 45-70 and iron sights, and at that range a nice 2-inch 'battle sight zero' means I just point and shoot at anything in range and be happy forever.
Just my thoughts.
(*) what I mean is: 1. take Marlin GG out of the box, clean as usual. 2. load with Buffalo Bore 405gr JFN, 3. Aim at any target out to 100yds 4. fire all shots exactly where the iron sights are lined up on 5. go home with big smile on your face. It doesnt get much better than that!
Hope that helps you decide to get one!
C-
fitoo1
Member
OH yes...Ive dreamnt of that Guide Gun myself for a long time. That .45-70 round is so versitile. I have a contender chambered in that round...it not as bad as one would think, what with the muzzlebrake and handloads.
I load them with a 300 gr bullet at about 1300 fps, which really isnt pushing it to hard...thats about the same energy range as say a .44 mag loaded with a 240 gr bullet. They dont get and deader when you connect.
Hornady is making that LEVERevolution in .45-70. I dont know what bullet wieght. I know that in my .30-30...it made a huge difference ballistically. I had it zeroed with 170 gr soft point bonded core remington factory ammo printing two inches high at 100 yds. The LR, in 160 grains printed 14" high at 100 yards!!!!!
If the .45-70 offering performs anything like the .30-30 offering does..I'd highly recommend it.
I load them with a 300 gr bullet at about 1300 fps, which really isnt pushing it to hard...thats about the same energy range as say a .44 mag loaded with a 240 gr bullet. They dont get and deader when you connect.
Hornady is making that LEVERevolution in .45-70. I dont know what bullet wieght. I know that in my .30-30...it made a huge difference ballistically. I had it zeroed with 170 gr soft point bonded core remington factory ammo printing two inches high at 100 yds. The LR, in 160 grains printed 14" high at 100 yards!!!!!
If the .45-70 offering performs anything like the .30-30 offering does..I'd highly recommend it.
achildofthesky
Member
Got to agree with Torpid...
I darn near psyched myself out while waiting on getting my 16" WWG CoPilot 45/70-457 WWG. I had visions of MASSIVE recoil and becoming a flinch-o-matic shooter. I initially did my sighting in/break in with Leverevolution 45/70's. They seem to move out pretty well and the bullet is a 325 grain pointy deal.
The actual recoil was no where near what I envisioned. I am not too recoil sensitive and have spent extended sessions banging away with '06's and 338WM's both at the range and on varmints. That Hornady ammo I shot would be fine for anything I'd likely hunt outside maybe a once in a lifetime Gizzy Bar hunt should I be so fortunate. It is pretty easy to find and not outragously expensive around these parts.
Yep, the 16" unported Marlin XLR based gun lets you know you squeezed one off but nothing that is near what I would call punishing. I understand that some of the Buffalo Bore and the like hardcast heavy hitters would change the equation a good deal but the gun fits and it does wear a decelerator pad. I have a box of the propriety 457 WWG mag loads but have not had a chance to send a few down range. I bought 100 nickle plated remington cases, a bunch of 300 grain Rem bullets to play with and also have 2 boxes of the Leverevolution stuff (1+ box fired) so I have a bit of fodder to reload when the mood strikes.
I am thinking of culling a few guns down to put the $$ into other projects but will always have the 45/70. Very versatile and the takedown feature of this gun makes it a super handy, easy to pack length and I think my go to gun for general hunting, hiking or whatever. Load it up or mellow it out for average to largeish game, I am sold on the 45/70. There are lots of other calibers that appeal to many, but I am thinking getting to know this gun better and becoming a "master" (as much as I can) of one may be better for me than just average with many.
I will keep my Marlin 1894 ltd edition 357, my family hand me down '06, a nice winchester saddle ring trapper 30-30 just because, and the 45/70 and sell another Marlin 1894 ltd edition in 44 mag and a remington M700 bdl ss in 338wm. Find a decent .22 and shotty and call it plenty for me at this point in my life.
Patty
I darn near psyched myself out while waiting on getting my 16" WWG CoPilot 45/70-457 WWG. I had visions of MASSIVE recoil and becoming a flinch-o-matic shooter. I initially did my sighting in/break in with Leverevolution 45/70's. They seem to move out pretty well and the bullet is a 325 grain pointy deal.
The actual recoil was no where near what I envisioned. I am not too recoil sensitive and have spent extended sessions banging away with '06's and 338WM's both at the range and on varmints. That Hornady ammo I shot would be fine for anything I'd likely hunt outside maybe a once in a lifetime Gizzy Bar hunt should I be so fortunate. It is pretty easy to find and not outragously expensive around these parts.
Yep, the 16" unported Marlin XLR based gun lets you know you squeezed one off but nothing that is near what I would call punishing. I understand that some of the Buffalo Bore and the like hardcast heavy hitters would change the equation a good deal but the gun fits and it does wear a decelerator pad. I have a box of the propriety 457 WWG mag loads but have not had a chance to send a few down range. I bought 100 nickle plated remington cases, a bunch of 300 grain Rem bullets to play with and also have 2 boxes of the Leverevolution stuff (1+ box fired) so I have a bit of fodder to reload when the mood strikes.
I am thinking of culling a few guns down to put the $$ into other projects but will always have the 45/70. Very versatile and the takedown feature of this gun makes it a super handy, easy to pack length and I think my go to gun for general hunting, hiking or whatever. Load it up or mellow it out for average to largeish game, I am sold on the 45/70. There are lots of other calibers that appeal to many, but I am thinking getting to know this gun better and becoming a "master" (as much as I can) of one may be better for me than just average with many.
I will keep my Marlin 1894 ltd edition 357, my family hand me down '06, a nice winchester saddle ring trapper 30-30 just because, and the 45/70 and sell another Marlin 1894 ltd edition in 44 mag and a remington M700 bdl ss in 338wm. Find a decent .22 and shotty and call it plenty for me at this point in my life.
Patty
AStone
Member
Nice to see this thread up and shooting again.
I keep drifting back to think about an 1895G.
Won't get one for a while - Alaska is still a ways off for me.
But darn, I sure hope to own one someday...
I keep drifting back to think about an 1895G.
Won't get one for a while - Alaska is still a ways off for me.
But darn, I sure hope to own one someday...
1895
i have both a guide gun with porting and the cowboy special . The guide gun is the heavy weight of the two. With a nikon 1-4 power scope on a scout mount its ideal for up to 200 yds if you aim upv
The longer barrel cowboy is like shooting a loud 22 lr with 405 grain lead in it. however step up to the 300 grain and better have a large recoil pad. the guide gun shoots left about 6 inches with the new hornady loads, dead on with the 300 or 405 loads. Haven't tried the lever loads in the cowboy yet . I love both and used to use the guide gun as my trunk carry. the flame out of ports at night will make anyone gut check and light a cigarette of someone standing to your sides. I got one after witnessing one used on a pit bull sent to attack a local deputy by bikers. real quick in ending that noise and blast stupified biker also but thats something for you to insert answer to.
I have used it for just about everything, and started reloading. but if you get one of either buy a recoil pad and a good sling.
i have both a guide gun with porting and the cowboy special . The guide gun is the heavy weight of the two. With a nikon 1-4 power scope on a scout mount its ideal for up to 200 yds if you aim upv
The longer barrel cowboy is like shooting a loud 22 lr with 405 grain lead in it. however step up to the 300 grain and better have a large recoil pad. the guide gun shoots left about 6 inches with the new hornady loads, dead on with the 300 or 405 loads. Haven't tried the lever loads in the cowboy yet . I love both and used to use the guide gun as my trunk carry. the flame out of ports at night will make anyone gut check and light a cigarette of someone standing to your sides. I got one after witnessing one used on a pit bull sent to attack a local deputy by bikers. real quick in ending that noise and blast stupified biker also but thats something for you to insert answer to.
I have used it for just about everything, and started reloading. but if you get one of either buy a recoil pad and a good sling.
JustsayMo
Member
I have the 1895G (ported) the 1895GS (unported) and the 1895 Cowboy.
Recoil difference is subtle and undetectable in the guide guns at velocities under <2000 fps. The longer Cowboy barrelled 1895 has less muzzel rise and more straight back recoil than the GG. Not punishing by any means. Slower shove than my 30-06 which feels quick and snappy to me.
Three of my four 1895's came to me because the previous owner didn't like the recoil. I was concerned at first but now I'm addicted to it. It doesn't hurt and it didn't take long before I quit thinking about it while shooting.
Recoil difference is subtle and undetectable in the guide guns at velocities under <2000 fps. The longer Cowboy barrelled 1895 has less muzzel rise and more straight back recoil than the GG. Not punishing by any means. Slower shove than my 30-06 which feels quick and snappy to me.
Three of my four 1895's came to me because the previous owner didn't like the recoil. I was concerned at first but now I'm addicted to it. It doesn't hurt and it didn't take long before I quit thinking about it while shooting.
AStone
Member
Showing my ignorance
You're saying the 300 gr. produces more recoil than the 405?
Interesting. That seems counterintuitive. I would have expected the converse.
But I guess it's like the stiffer 125 gr rnds (which I haven't tried yet) from my .357 mag producing more recoil than, say, a 158 gr.
Is this due to f=ma (that is, because the 300's have higher velocity), or are the 300 gr loaded hotter, or both?
Sorry for my naivety, but I'm still in training when it come to ... well, everything.
Nem
OK, I guess I need some education here.
You're saying the 300 gr. produces more recoil than the 405?
Interesting. That seems counterintuitive. I would have expected the converse.
But I guess it's like the stiffer 125 gr rnds (which I haven't tried yet) from my .357 mag producing more recoil than, say, a 158 gr.
Is this due to f=ma (that is, because the 300's have higher velocity), or are the 300 gr loaded hotter, or both?
Sorry for my naivety, but I'm still in training when it come to ... well, everything.
Nem
wanderinwalker
Member
Nematocyst,
The factory and cowboy type 405 gr loads DO kick less than factory 300s. I can't explain it other than the slower speed and it's really more of a push, while the 300s have more of a sharper hit (still not terrible IMO).
My .45-70 is a T/C Encore Katahdin, unported, 20" barrel. You get mega muzzle flash and quite the crack out of this bad boy. It shoves one back pretty good too, but far from unbearable. I confess though, it IS a 10-shots in a trip rifle for me. It only weighs a little over 6 pounds and a yardstick has room to spare when measuring it. Surprisingly accurate too! My prefered load so far is a light dose of RL-7 behind a Remington 300gr SJHP. I might go to a 405 for an "all-around" load though.
Compared to this, a "moderate" 405 load in an H&R Buffalo Rifle feels like a powder puff and a Marlin Guide Gun seems like a rapid-fire rifle.
Sorry for the poor picture quality:
Edited: That's an 18" ruler in the top of the pic, with a .45-70 dummy shell.
The factory and cowboy type 405 gr loads DO kick less than factory 300s. I can't explain it other than the slower speed and it's really more of a push, while the 300s have more of a sharper hit (still not terrible IMO).
My .45-70 is a T/C Encore Katahdin, unported, 20" barrel. You get mega muzzle flash and quite the crack out of this bad boy. It shoves one back pretty good too, but far from unbearable. I confess though, it IS a 10-shots in a trip rifle for me. It only weighs a little over 6 pounds and a yardstick has room to spare when measuring it. Surprisingly accurate too! My prefered load so far is a light dose of RL-7 behind a Remington 300gr SJHP. I might go to a 405 for an "all-around" load though.
Compared to this, a "moderate" 405 load in an H&R Buffalo Rifle feels like a powder puff and a Marlin Guide Gun seems like a rapid-fire rifle.
Sorry for the poor picture quality:
Edited: That's an 18" ruler in the top of the pic, with a .45-70 dummy shell.
AStone
Member
wanderinwalker, thanks for that explanation. I'm beginning to "get it", to put things into perspective. Thanks for using the 1895G as one of your examples.
That T/C Encore Katahdin is a fine looking rifle. I confess, I've explored them a bit. If I eventually get a .45-70, I'll probably go with a Marlin since both my other rifles are Marlin levers, and I like the familiarity.
Also, relative to this:
I'm asking because I'm a small guy. (Tall but thin, somewhere around 140.)
So, for example, if you are 190 and it "shoves you back",
then for me at 140 it could knock me on my 4$$.
Of course, I'll eventually try one out at the range, but just curious for now,
trying to develop a mindset of what to expect.
That T/C Encore Katahdin is a fine looking rifle. I confess, I've explored them a bit. If I eventually get a .45-70, I'll probably go with a Marlin since both my other rifles are Marlin levers, and I like the familiarity.
Also, relative to this:
What is your approximate weight?
I'm asking because I'm a small guy. (Tall but thin, somewhere around 140.)
So, for example, if you are 190 and it "shoves you back",
then for me at 140 it could knock me on my 4$$.
Of course, I'll eventually try one out at the range, but just curious for now,
trying to develop a mindset of what to expect.
wanderinwalker
Member
I'm just below average height and just a hair heavier than you (150) and in good shape. I can go all day with a 1903 or M-1 Garand .30-06 but find the 12ga shotgun with slugs intolerable. Actually, a .300 Magnum feels worse than the .45-70 IMO, but it hits faster and sharper at the shooter's end. And the other barrel is a .50-caliber muzzleloader, which is just barely milder than a .45-70 when using 100-gr/240-250gr sabot loads.
I had to look back at previously posted material, but to ME, the long barreled1895CB without a recoil pad kicked a lot harder with Remington factory 405's than 300's. The 1895 LTD with the curved steel buttplate will punish you if you are faint of heart. The 1895GG (ported) isn't exactly a pussycat to shoot but it's no where near the recoil of a 20 inch 12 ga. 870 shooting 2 3/4 1 oz max slugs with a factory recoil pad.
The 1895CB is a LONG barreled rifle and totally loaded weighs a bunch, is front heavy and far more suited to say, shooting buffalo off sticks than carrying around in the woods chasing deer elk and bear.
As for effectiveness on deer, any factory 45/70 load will do the job, even a mild 'cowboy load'. For elk you might want the penetration of the 405 or a hardcast.
Most factory loads are low (under 2000fps) velocity, you shouldn't see a lot of bloodshot meat if you place a bullet behind the shoulder. Also, even with a relatively thin jacket in the Remington loads, they tend to stay in one piece. Even if you shoot through a shoulder, you won't get the high velocity secondary projectlies (bone fragments) that you'd get with say, a 30 cal 180 gr bullet at over 2800 fps.
Nem, I've seen a number of kids shoot the guide guns (ported and otherwise) with 300 gr bullets and nobody ran home crying. The recoil pad makes a big difference.
The 1895CB is a LONG barreled rifle and totally loaded weighs a bunch, is front heavy and far more suited to say, shooting buffalo off sticks than carrying around in the woods chasing deer elk and bear.
As for effectiveness on deer, any factory 45/70 load will do the job, even a mild 'cowboy load'. For elk you might want the penetration of the 405 or a hardcast.
Most factory loads are low (under 2000fps) velocity, you shouldn't see a lot of bloodshot meat if you place a bullet behind the shoulder. Also, even with a relatively thin jacket in the Remington loads, they tend to stay in one piece. Even if you shoot through a shoulder, you won't get the high velocity secondary projectlies (bone fragments) that you'd get with say, a 30 cal 180 gr bullet at over 2800 fps.
Nem, I've seen a number of kids shoot the guide guns (ported and otherwise) with 300 gr bullets and nobody ran home crying. The recoil pad makes a big difference.
AStone
Member
Thanks, guys. That's useful information.
I'm going to look around for some one who has one and give it a test spin in the next month or two.
By the way, speaking of rnds: what do folks in Alaska most commonly carry in them for griz protection? I'm guessing the larger rnds, but ...
Nem
I'm going to look around for some one who has one and give it a test spin in the next month or two.
By the way, speaking of rnds: what do folks in Alaska most commonly carry in them for griz protection? I'm guessing the larger rnds, but ...
Nem
AStone
Member
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