Marlin for defense?
- Thread starter Mendel5
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Can you use that to hunt in Indiana? I thought you had to hunt with slugs there.
.30-30 will take care of any human predator, same as animals. I wouldn't use it in a condo, or wherever a rifle bullet could go through walls and hurt someone, like your own kids. But it'll certainly take down someone who wants to kill you, if it comes to that.
.30-30 will take care of any human predator, same as animals. I wouldn't use it in a condo, or wherever a rifle bullet could go through walls and hurt someone, like your own kids. But it'll certainly take down someone who wants to kill you, if it comes to that.
Cosmoline
Member
Numerous threads have gone over and over this. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to use 130-150 grain HP's from a .30-30 for self defense. Indeed I'd take a .30-30 any day of the week over any handgun. It's an exceptionally effective cartridge against all medium soft-skin game. Any firearm bullet will penetrate modern interior walls, so you're better off with a firearm that gets the job done with less chance of a miss and less need for followup shots.
El Tejon
Member
Unless predation permit, but I recommend 6.5 Swede for that.
Remember Rule #4, with a centerfire rifle overpentration into my neighbor would be a grave concern for an urban subdivision dweller like me.
Remember Rule #4, with a centerfire rifle overpentration into my neighbor would be a grave concern for an urban subdivision dweller like me.
TomFromTheShade
Member
The 30-30 is a fine choice for almost all big game hunting out to about 200 yards. Some people will tell you that it is marginal on elk and moose, but plenty of them have fallen to the 30-30 over the years. As for humans, think of it like the 7.62x39. They are about equal in my book and that AK round is a fine fine bad guy killer.
HorseSoldier
Member
30-30 should get the job done in a defensive shooting scenario . . . but a 45-70 Guide Gun would really get the job done . . .
Magnum Wheel Man
Member
have you considered the 410 lever gun... I think it would be an awesome home defense gun, but 410 slugs only marginal on deer, but at least legal in your area...
Father Knows Best
Member
great choice!
In my not-so-humble opinion, the best choice for a home defense firearm is a Marlin or Winchester "thutty-thutty" lever action rifle. They are compact, lightweight, quick-handling, reliable, more powerful and easier to hit with than a handgun, and can be used effectively in hand-to-hand combat, if necessary. Compared to black rifles and many modern handguns, they're also a whole lot more "friendly" to the media and politicians (prosecutors) in the event you have to pull the trigger, and that may help keep you from winding up on the wrong end of an indictment, or save your @ss when you have to face a jury. The scared homeowner forced to use his trusty old deer rifle to protect the homestead just plays better to typical American media and legal audiences than does the prepared, well-trained suburban commando with his military-style, scary looking weapons.
The Marlin 336 also happens to be my first choice of 30-30's. It is extremely well built. There are some great new ammo choices out there, too, like the new LeveRevolution ballistic tip ammo.
In my not-so-humble opinion, the best choice for a home defense firearm is a Marlin or Winchester "thutty-thutty" lever action rifle. They are compact, lightweight, quick-handling, reliable, more powerful and easier to hit with than a handgun, and can be used effectively in hand-to-hand combat, if necessary. Compared to black rifles and many modern handguns, they're also a whole lot more "friendly" to the media and politicians (prosecutors) in the event you have to pull the trigger, and that may help keep you from winding up on the wrong end of an indictment, or save your @ss when you have to face a jury. The scared homeowner forced to use his trusty old deer rifle to protect the homestead just plays better to typical American media and legal audiences than does the prepared, well-trained suburban commando with his military-style, scary looking weapons.
The Marlin 336 also happens to be my first choice of 30-30's. It is extremely well built. There are some great new ammo choices out there, too, like the new LeveRevolution ballistic tip ammo.
Fosbery
Member
I use a Marlin for defence, but mine is in .357 magnum. I get 10 shots instead of 6 and I can practice with .38 special. I must admit I've never shot .30-30, never even seen it this side of the Atlantic. Is it comparable to any other common cartridges?
Father Knows Best
Member
I actually prefer the pistol caliber lever guns for home defense, also. The Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum is my favorite.
the .30-30 was introduced in 1894 as the .30 Winchester Central Fire (.30 WCF). It became commonly known as the .30-30 because it was .30 caliber and original loadings back up the bullet with about 30 grains of powder. It was the first commercially successful smokeless powder cartridge. It was launched along with the Winchester model 1894 lever action rifle, which it was designed for. It is generally classified as an "intermediate" cartridge and is roughly equivalent ballistically to the 7.62x39 ("Russian") cartridge. It is much higher velocity that handgun rounds but still slower than full power rifle rounds like the .30-06, .308 (7.62x51 NATO), etc. Until recently, however, 30-30 ammo always used ballistically inefficient round or flat-nose bullets, because the 30-30 is used in tubular magazines where a pointed bullet can set off the primers of other cartridges under recoil. Hornady has recently introduced a line of ammo for lever guns that uses soft plastic tips to give ballistically efficient spitzer-type shapes and is still safe for tubular magazines.
The .30-30 is the classic American deer rifle. There was a time when a .30-30 lever action was found in almost every American home. They are still quite common, and .30-30 ammo remains one of the best sellers in the U.S.
the .30-30 was introduced in 1894 as the .30 Winchester Central Fire (.30 WCF). It became commonly known as the .30-30 because it was .30 caliber and original loadings back up the bullet with about 30 grains of powder. It was the first commercially successful smokeless powder cartridge. It was launched along with the Winchester model 1894 lever action rifle, which it was designed for. It is generally classified as an "intermediate" cartridge and is roughly equivalent ballistically to the 7.62x39 ("Russian") cartridge. It is much higher velocity that handgun rounds but still slower than full power rifle rounds like the .30-06, .308 (7.62x51 NATO), etc. Until recently, however, 30-30 ammo always used ballistically inefficient round or flat-nose bullets, because the 30-30 is used in tubular magazines where a pointed bullet can set off the primers of other cartridges under recoil. Hornady has recently introduced a line of ammo for lever guns that uses soft plastic tips to give ballistically efficient spitzer-type shapes and is still safe for tubular magazines.
The .30-30 is the classic American deer rifle. There was a time when a .30-30 lever action was found in almost every American home. They are still quite common, and .30-30 ammo remains one of the best sellers in the U.S.
Cosmoline
Member
One major plus of the .30-30, and the edge it has over the 7.62x39 for home defense, is the common availability of tried and tested HP and SP rounds in the 125-150 grain range. The .30-30 has been putting expanding rounds through soft skinned game for over 110 years now. The x39, in contrast, is a military round with a history of relying on FMJ rounds. There are some expanding rounds out there for it, but they have nowhere near the track record of the .30-30's expanding rounds.
I would not advise the 160 grain leverevolution rounds for home defense. They do shoot flatter at 100+ yards, but this isn't a factor here. I'd go with a lighter weight HP
I would not advise the 160 grain leverevolution rounds for home defense. They do shoot flatter at 100+ yards, but this isn't a factor here. I'd go with a lighter weight HP
Fosbery - the 30-30 is about like a rimmed 7.62x39 only a little more powerful. It throws a .30 caliber 150 grain bullet at about 2400 fps. Ballistics suffer a little at long range because for the most part you have to use flat or round nosed bullets because most of the rifles that fire it use tubular magazines. Hornady has started making pointed nose bullets with soft polymer tips that help take care of this but most of the ammo I still see for it is round nosed.
It is a very popular round in the US.
It is a very popular round in the US.
Fosbery
Member
Right, cheers for the info Over here we generally use .240, .270 and .308 for deer.
Of course, I have never actually used my Marlin in anger, but I am confident I would do so if it were nescessary. Assuming I was actually acting in self-defence (me or him, or near enough), I doubt I'd have legal trouble.
Over here we generally use .240, .270 and .308 for deer.Of course, I have never actually used my Marlin in anger, but I am confident I would do so if it were nescessary. Assuming I was actually acting in self-defence (me or him, or near enough), I doubt I'd have legal trouble.
AStone
Member
Bumping a quiet Marlin .30/30 thread
Seems the right one for me (given stock & barrel modification plans).
Also looking into 1895G for a useful gun for the Alaska move...
I've been looking at Marlins for a while now. Will probably buy a 336W soon.
Seems the right one for me (given stock & barrel modification plans).
Also looking into 1895G for a useful gun for the Alaska move...
AStone
Member
Perhaps a minor point, but a relevant one, Aspen.
ugaarguy
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Nem, what are your thoughts on going with a '94 (Winchester or Marlin) in a handgun chambering? The ability to top off the mag with loose rounds, already mentioned is a relevant benefit. The ability to grab the lever carbine, clip a loaded & holstered handgun, in like chambering, onto your belt, and shove a handful or of loose rounds into a pocket that will feed both is appealing to me. You're also looking at a guide gun in 45-70. Between the lighter 45-70 loadings and the hotter 357 Mag, and even more so 44 Mag loadings how much of a gap in utility/effectiveness/ballistics is there? I don't know the answer to this as most ammo and ballistics websites are blocked here, but it might be worth looking into. Of course the 30-30 is a classic mid level do all round, and it's very hard to argue against. I know you're in the potential purchase debate process Nem; and I hope those thoughts help with your decision.
AStone
Member
UG, you make good points as usual. (Thanks also for your thoughts on my decision process on the .30/30 in another thread, especially your convictions about the importance of fit ... with which I agree 100%...more there soon....)
I think your ideas here about pistol caliber carbines are very reasonable. Indeed, if I weren't so far down my handgun path already, I'd probably go that route. But at this point, since I'm not shooting any handgun rounds that would make good carbine rnds, too, trying to switch over would be too much right now.
I think I'm just going to stay with the handguns I've got (and am getting to know well) and go with a carbine in a rifle caliber.
.30/30 of course has my main attention right now, but several discussions that I'm watching/participating in elsewhere on .45/70 suddenly has my attention. I'm especially fond of the 1895G with that 18.5" carbine barrel.
Am I correct that there are loads for that caliber ranging from 400gr heavy hitters
to "cowboy rounds" { = 170 - 180???).
If so, I guess that could make a good defensive Marlin, though honestly, I'm thinking: A) I don't really want to put myself through that recoil experience with heavy rounds; & B) for what I need, right now (given that my 12 g is my main defensive long gun), that .30/30 seems pretty realistic ... and inexpensive.
Hmm. I'm going to go eat some fish & chips while I ponder this some more...
Nem
I think your ideas here about pistol caliber carbines are very reasonable. Indeed, if I weren't so far down my handgun path already, I'd probably go that route. But at this point, since I'm not shooting any handgun rounds that would make good carbine rnds, too, trying to switch over would be too much right now.
I think I'm just going to stay with the handguns I've got (and am getting to know well) and go with a carbine in a rifle caliber.
.30/30 of course has my main attention right now, but several discussions that I'm watching/participating in elsewhere on .45/70 suddenly has my attention. I'm especially fond of the 1895G with that 18.5" carbine barrel.
Am I correct that there are loads for that caliber ranging from 400gr heavy hitters
to "cowboy rounds" { = 170 - 180???). If so, I guess that could make a good defensive Marlin, though honestly, I'm thinking: A) I don't really want to put myself through that recoil experience with heavy rounds; & B) for what I need, right now (given that my 12 g is my main defensive long gun), that .30/30 seems pretty realistic ... and inexpensive.
Hmm. I'm going to go eat some fish & chips while I ponder this some more...
Nem
I have an 1894c in .357 which I love, but am strongly considering a Marlin 30-30 for my first 'real' rifle caliber.
I have a question about the caliber itself, though: I understand there are great hollowpoint ammo choices for hunting and self-defense, but is the 30-30 round capable of more penetration than the .357 against barriers like solid-core doors, automobile glass, etc.? I'm not a TEOTWAWKI kind of guy...just wondering
I have a question about the caliber itself, though: I understand there are great hollowpoint ammo choices for hunting and self-defense, but is the 30-30 round capable of more penetration than the .357 against barriers like solid-core doors, automobile glass, etc.? I'm not a TEOTWAWKI kind of guy...just wondering
ETXhiker
Member
Please note, that you cannot "top off" a Win. 94 magazine, unless the mag. tube is completely empty. If it contains even one round, the loading gate is blocked by a cartridge.
While I think a .30-30 would be a great manstopper, I worry about someone using one in an apartment. A 9mm might go into the next unit, but a .30-30 (or any deer size cartrdige) might penetrate the next 2 or 3.
While I think a .30-30 would be a great manstopper, I worry about someone using one in an apartment. A 9mm might go into the next unit, but a .30-30 (or any deer size cartrdige) might penetrate the next 2 or 3.
ugaarguy
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Nem, one of my NCOs is a big time target shooter. He runs everything from an old paper cartridge rifle, to leverguns, to WWI era bolt guns, and on up from there. I fired a few cowboy style rounds he loaded up thru a modern Winchester '86 light weight in 45-70. Even out of the light weight (which is light for being big enough to chamber in 45-70 in relative terms) they were complete softballs, but I've no doubt that the 200 and some odd grain chunk of lead coming out of rifle's bore is plenty to deal with all but the biggest critters. I say that to confirm that, yes 45-70 in light loads can indeed be down right fun to shoot. Then again, if the Alaska move isn't definite the 30-30 makes more sense. It's a good caliber to have in the battery even if you do move to Alaska. If you do move up there, or if the move looks more definite, then I'd go with the 45-70 if you want it. I think the ammo cost and availabilty you already mention also helps the leaning toward the 30-30.
Familiarity is always good. I agree that higher proficiency with what you already have trumps switching over to (and trying to get truly familiar with) a new handgun and rifle simply for caliber compatability. That again points back to the 30-30 or 45-70, beating out a hangun round in your lever gun.
That experience solidified for me what folks like sm always teach. Get a reliable gun, but the fit is equally important. Get an action/control layout that feels right to you. Get a good caliber that you shoot comfortably, not something bigger that leans into tolerating it and not being comfortable. Adjust grips/stocks to perfect the fit. Go shoot it a bunch and get really familiar with it. These fundamentals apply across the board to handguns rifles and shotguns, as you well know. I'm just trying to provide an outside perspective for you, and help out. Again, thanks for the encouraging words.
Familiarity is always good. I agree that higher proficiency with what you already have trumps switching over to (and trying to get truly familiar with) a new handgun and rifle simply for caliber compatability. That again points back to the 30-30 or 45-70, beating out a hangun round in your lever gun.
Nem, thanks for the kind words. Earlier this year the realization that fit, and subsequent resukting accuracy, beat out caliber and modern super gun hype caused some changes for me. I went from a Glock in 40 S&W that I was marginal with, to a BHP in 9mm (and a 1911 in 45ACP as well) that fit me better, and I subsequently shoot better. The purchase of an old S&W M&P in .38 Special was just so I could have a revolver to play with it. I quickly learned that getting decent with a revolver DA also really helped shooting autos.
That experience solidified for me what folks like sm always teach. Get a reliable gun, but the fit is equally important. Get an action/control layout that feels right to you. Get a good caliber that you shoot comfortably, not something bigger that leans into tolerating it and not being comfortable. Adjust grips/stocks to perfect the fit. Go shoot it a bunch and get really familiar with it. These fundamentals apply across the board to handguns rifles and shotguns, as you well know. I'm just trying to provide an outside perspective for you, and help out. Again, thanks for the encouraging words.
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