Massad Ayoob on call the cops

[Duke of Doubt]

Sometimes Charlie Chaplin gets ground to hamburger between the wheels.

It happens.

And only we few get to watch.

And they ask me "why?"

 

[saltydog452]

All of this is silly...and I just contributed to the silliness.

He's one of the good guys. You'd think that we would circle the wagons and defend our own rather than contribute to a feeding frenzy.

Lord, luv a duck.

Never met the guy.

salty

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

while I'll agree with the silliness of how long it went on, I would have to point out the "defend our own" reminds me of all the Obama followers blindly following "their own." It doesn't hurt to question your leader or your experts. If they are true leaders or experts they won't mind, because it will only make them better in the end.

 

[rbernie]

It doesn't hurt to question your leader or your experts.

No, it doesn't. Discussion is healthy.

But at last we owe these folk the basic human respect to question them (and each other) based on real answerable issues and not damn them with hearsay from some unnamed party who heard it from someone else.

Anyone can send a PM to Mas, and he'll likely be kind enought to engage in a thoughtful reply. Sitting in a public thread such as this one and debating silliness does not fall under the heading of 'questioning our leaders or experts'.

 

[Wheeler44]

I have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Ayoob....And I wasn't a student. We met as fellow instructors and he even endorsed (several times) the program that I am promoting...How many paid Instructors will give courtesy, let alone endorsement to another instructors program? I'll wager not too many. I was able to spend a day watching him teach practical shooting to a wide cross section of Americana. Each and every student that I spoke with seemed very satisfied with the course of instruction. I could see the improvement in the students shooting as the day progressed.

I was fortunate enough to see Mas and his instructor staff shoot the the qualifying course before the students..I guarantee that you don't want Mr. Ayoob shooting at you..right handed, left handed or two handed....At any distance...I don't know if he has ever been involved in a shooting, but his muscle memory is well refined.

He doesn't pretend to be an attorney....I feel that the advice that he offers is sound...

He also appreciates nice old shotguns and revolvers....That makes him okay in my books as well.

To me he seems to be knowledgeable, generous and above all genuine....Perhaps his detractors should try for at least two out of three.

Wheeler44

 

[Group9]

Not To Pass Judgement...
But the instructor I had for concealed carry classes, who currently serves as a full time sheriff's deputy around here, and teaches police officers from local smaller city departments has an opinion on him.

This guy is a former DEA agent who worked Miami, and met Massad when he came to visit their unit. The unit just happened to be going on a raid that day, and invited him along. According to my instructor, he talked a good game en-route to the raid, but for some reason couldn't be pried out of the backseat of their vehicle upon arrival at the scene of the raid.

Is this story true? I have no idea, I wasn't there, so it's not a first hand experience I can share on him. But, I do trust this instructor's word, and I've never been lied to by him on any other matter, and I can't see any reason he would have lied about this incident. I've known this instructor for years, and he is one of the few men I know who I can take his word as his bond.

I've never identified myself on this forum, and much prefer to lurk and read, than post, but I am a DEA agent, and have been one for almost eighteen years, and who, until recently, was assigned to the Miami Field Division. But at the point someone uses DEA to try and smear someone's reputation, I will.

That story about Mas Ayoob is simply not true. Something else should be pointed out. Many instructors will have DEA FTU agents come to their classes to take firearms instruction, and will put that on their resumes as "trained DEA", when for all anyone knows, the agents went back to Quantico and said, "what a total waste of money".

On the other hand, only a very small number of firearms instructors are judged to be so good that are actually invited to Quantico to teach instructors and agents, or even fewer, sent to the field offices to teach agents. Mas Ayoob was one of those few.

Those in law enforcement know that one of the worst things that can be said about somebody is that he wouldn't go though a door on a high risk warrant or raid. Trying to damage someone's reputation by attributing statements like that to another agency is worse.

And, if someone claims to be a DEA agent, or former DEA agent, in a training class like that, ask them their basic agent class that they graduated from and in what year. That's not secret squirrel info because only another DEA employee could ever check and verify it or know any more about you from knowing it.

I graduated from BA-80, in 1991. And, my primary FTU was Robert M.

 

[bikerdoc]

Good for you group 9 for showing integrity and honor.
Doc

 

[Brian Dale]

Good post, Group9.

 

[massad ayoob]

I've never identified myself on this forum, and much prefer to lurk and read, than post, but I am a DEA agent, and have been one for almost eighteen years, and who, until recently, was assigned to the Miami Field Division. But at the point someone uses DEA to try and smear someone's reputation, I will.

That story about Mas Ayoob is simply not true. Something else should be pointed out. Many instructors will have DEA FTU agents come to their classes to take firearms instruction, and will put that on their resumes as "trained DEA", when for all anyone knows, the agents went back to Quantico and said, "what a total waste of money".

On the other hand, only a very small number of firearms instructors are judged to be so good that are actually invited to Quantico to teach instructors and agents, or even fewer, sent to the field offices to teach agents. Mas Ayoob was one of those few.

Those in law enforcement know that one of the worst things that can be said about somebody is that he wouldn't go though a door on a high risk warrant or raid. Trying to damage someone's reputation by attributing statements like that to another agency is worse.

And, if someone claims to be a DEA agent, or former DEA agent, in a training class like that, ask them their basic agent class that they graduated from and in what year. That's not secret squirrel info because only another DEA employee could ever check and verify it or know any more about you from knowing it.

I graduated from BA-80, in 1991. And, my primary FTU was Robert M.

Thanks for the reality injection, Group 9.

Sounds as if you had the good fortune to train under Bob McCracken -- one of the greats. Last I heard, he was enjoying a well-earned retirement, and I hope he still is. If you run across him, please give him my best wishes, and thank him again for all that he shared with so many of us.

 

[kilo729]

Geez, I turned the video on and was greeted with Barry White.

 

[amd6547]

I used to read alot of different gun mags. I gave them all up due to the repetitive stories, and the constant puff pieces that never criticized manufacturers.
One writer always stood out for me, and that was Ayoob. Not only did he demonstrate true knowledge of the subjects he wrote about, but he was also a very good, entertaining writer (I don't know how much is the result of good editing).
If you are reading this, sir, thanks for the years of enjoyable reading, and the lessons learned.

 

[Group9]

Thanks for the reality injection, Group 9.

Sounds as if you had the good fortune to train under Bob McCracken -- one of the greats. Last I heard, he was enjoying a well-earned retirement, and I hope he still is. If you run across him, please give him my best wishes, and thank him again for all that he shared with so many of us.

Yes, Bob was not only a good instructor, but is also just a really good guy.

And, for what it's worth, I have always enjoyed reading your books and articles as well. Someone told me a long time ago that the best way to learn things, and remember them, was to be told them in story fashion rather than as a dry intelligence report. It's true when learning about drug cartels, and it's true when learning about staying alive.

That's what I've always liked about your after action reports, and why they stick with me.

 

[Group9]

And, here's something of a general nature for other people here to consider. Being a patrol officer, in a small town, with limited back-up, is about as dangerous as it gets in law enforcement. At least in the places I have worked. Nothing that DEA agents do is comparable in risk to that.

I would rather hit a crack house with seven other guys, than walk up to car by myself in the middle of the night, with no idea who I am walking up on, on any day of the week.

It's embarrassing as an agent that anyone even thinks that what we do is more dangerous than that, because local cops and patrol guys like Mas Ayoob certainly know better.

 

[BCCL]

^^^ Well put!

 

[threefeathers]

I was lucky enough to attend LFI with fiddletown and later shared much with Mas when he was visiting Tombstone. I plan to be in Phx to assist with an LFI class in April even if all I do is sweep the range house. Mas is courageous enough to stick his neck out for all of us when it is needed. He stands up to critics and unlike me he is polished enough to disagree with someone without making enemies. (I usually simply blurt our, "yer a ***** liar, but I'm learning. Normally I just tell people I'm a retired 19D and Army folks will smile and walk away)
I require my students to read In the Gravest Extreme before I will teach them anything. If you haven't read it, you should.

 

[Brian Dale]

And, here's something of a general nature for other people here to consider. Being a patrol officer, in a small town, with limited back-up, is about as dangerous as it gets in law enforcement.
{...}
It's embarrassing as an agent that anyone even thinks that what we do is more dangerous than that, because local cops and patrol guys like Mas Ayoob certainly know better.

Thank you for bringing another touch of class to the thread, Sir.