Match of Comblock weapons. Czech vs China.

[Tigerclaw_x]

Hey, folks. Yesterday went to the range with three of my rifles. Two of them were put through the paces. Both were shot using TULA AMMO FMJ, from UNSUPPORTED standing position, without sling at 25 meters. ANd the contestants are:
1. NORINCO HUNTER. Origins: CHINA. I bought this rifle on how it looks. It has an SKS style stock but takes AK mags. I happen to like SKS/M14 style stock MORE than I like pistol handle stock. They just feel better in my hands. It also spots shotgun like trigger.
2. Century arms Vz58. Folding stock. I bought this because I heard on how good of a platform it is. And how is it supposed to be better than AK.

Both rifles were fired one after another, in series of 10 shots. After 10 shots was fired from one rifle, it was placed at a table while another rifle was loaded and fired. This permitted some cooling time for the barrels. Both rifles were fired with iron sights only.

A) Handling and Ergonomics. Vz58 is MUCH lighter than Hunter. Both are equally pointable. Vz58 pistol handle is too short for my hands, even without gloves, living half of my pinky hanging off the pistol handle. Norinco hunter was more comfortable. Vz58 has a BHO, Norinco Hunter does not. Neither rifles have scopes and rails. Vz 58 has a more comfortable location for a charging handle. WINNER VZ58

B) Recoil. Norinco hunter has MUCH less felt recoil. Vz58 not only has a better recoil, its metal folding stock hits me right on the cheekbone with each shot. NOT comfortable at all. WINNER NORINCO HUNTER.

C) Reliability. Both rifles fired 150 rounds of Tula Ammo. NO FAILURE OF ANY KIND (AR15 manufacturers - TAKE NOTICE and try to achieve the same result). Both rifles had VERY strong ejection. The casings would fly at 2 O clock, bounce of the wall, to the ceiling, than bounce off the ceiling to the opposite wall. This is especially true of Norinco hunter. Norinco Hunter has that "shotgun" trigger that breaks very cleanly.

D) Accuracy. Norinco Hunter developed a side to side stock wobble after 30 rounds. (Made in China, eh?) Even after that. Norinco Hunter CONSISTENTLY delivered 3 inch groups of 10 shots. VZ58 groups were just under 4 inches and they all landed at 2 o'clock on the target. Vz 58 was hitting me on the face with folding stock each time. My right cheekbone still aches. I will buy a pad for that VZ58. WINNER: NORINCO HUNTER.

E) COST. I purchased Norinco Hunter back in 2006 for $400 with 3 chinese mags. It was before Saiga's were imported. I just fired it first time. I purchased Vz58 last year. $500 with 5 mags included. Winner - A TIE.

Conclusion. Please, understand that this is coming from the person who is not into "tactikool" guns with 50 rails and 4 pistol handles. Who wants only ONE rail (for illuminated low power scope). And considers the Bayonet the second most important attachment after that scope.
I STRONGLY recommend NORINCO hunter. It was not only more accurate, it didn't hit me in the face with each shot. While it does not have the "Evil" look, probably it will make holes in you just same way as most tactikooled AK.
With less recoil, more accurate and naturally pointable, it has the all too familiar to me feel of "SKS" or a shotgun. I am NOT saying that Vz58 is a bad weapon. However, it proved to have lower accuracy and it hit me in the face 150 times. The lower weight and BHO feature did NOT make up for that.

 

[68wj]

Nice matchup. As a VZ fan, the accuracy and recoil results don't surprise me. Consider one of the fixed stocks, surplus or aftermarket, to help with your cheek, but the longer sight radius of the SKS is going to help with accuracy. The Fab grip is supposed to be larger for the VZ too.

 

[barnbwt]

Sounds a bit like my experience with my VZ and a MAK90 thumbhole/sporter. All except the cheek slapping part. How the heck do you manage to get a cheek-weld on the VZ ? I have to lean my head nearly on my shoulder to do so, or lean so far forward I'd be worried about my eye-socket more than my cheekbone . The stock is inclined enough (and hard/pointy enough) that you really don't want to brace against it for shooting. If you shoot with your face "floated" off the stock or use a pad/riser the recoil is very mild. I personally think less so than the AK, or maybe about equivalent (which is saying something when the gun+mag weighs a few pounds less)

When I get around to learning welding, I plan on stretching the stock 1" (so it fits me better, and closes fully when a drum is inserted) and adding horizontal riser/cheek piece made of a half section of steel tubing. Add some better sights, and ought to be real comfortable then. Whoever makes the D-Technik pistol grips I have on mine makes a pretty good sized grip for Americans (I have to think that missing grip length was well appreciated in N Vietnamese tunnels, though )

TCB

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x

I happen to like SKS/M14 style stock MORE than I like pistol handle stock. They just feel better in my hands.

You really don't have to read much beyond that to know what the final conclusion was gonna be.

Shooting standing and unsupported, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the rifle that feels more natural and comfortable to you is going to come out on top.

If your VZ2008 is consistently hitting at 2:00 O'clock from 25 yards, you probably need to get the sights properly adjusted to you and your style of shooting, in my experience standard AK/SKS sight tools work fine on the VZ.

Also, the VZ2008 has duel trigger springs that make the pull heavier than it needs to be, do some research and you'll find that it can be improved quite a bit with a few very simple mods.

I've got to admit that as much as I like the VZ, SKS's just seem to work better for 95% of what I actually use a rifle for.

Have you slugged the bore on your VZ2008?
When I did mine I was kind of disappointed to find that Century is still having them built with .308 bores.

 

[crazysccrmd]

Reliability. Both rifles fired 150 rounds of Tula Ammo. NO FAILURE OF ANY KIND (AR15 manufacturers - TAKE NOTICE and try to achieve the same result)

You must not have fired any decent quality ARs before. None of mine, in multiple calibers, have had any problems that didn't result from an old beat up GI magazine. That is with firing way more than just 150rds one time.

 

[sappyg]

C) Reliability. Both rifles fired 150 rounds of Tula Ammo. NO FAILURE OF ANY KIND (AR15 manufacturers - TAKE NOTICE and try to achieve the same
.

Although I enjoyed reading the review the OP lost me here. I've ran Quite a lot of Tula in an AR without any failure whatever. It goes bang with absolute regularity.
Something must surely be wrong with your AR if it won't function with Tula.

 

[Destructo6]

Yeah, that baffles me, too.

Add another zero, then double it and I might be impressed.

I've shot plenty of M4s that have done just that and those were working guns, not safe queens.

 

[fpgt72]

That would be fun....wish our club would do something like that....perhaps I can talk them into something along those lines.....might get some new people out.