Maximum "bounce" range?

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floorit76

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I live on the flattest of the flat ground, here in the midwest. Houses are few and relatively far between, but there are lots of irrigation rigs, sheds and things about. I was raised to be very careful about shooting anything meduium to high powered, but know lots of guys that shoot at coyotes with 270's and larger, without giving it much thought. My question is, approximatly how far would you expect a 223 fired flat, over broken farmland to "bounce". I generally shoot soft points, but have been trying to make the switch to V-max. How about fmj? Or throw frozen ground into the mix. Is there a "guide" somewhere that gives an idea of what to expect your max range, when fired flat horizontal will be?
 
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I once heard that a 30-06 which is close to a .270 will go as far as a mile. Rather or not this is true I don't have a clue but who knows. With this being said I have never seen a bullet "bounce" off soil, frozen ground may, rocks sure, water likely.... but from all the shooting I have ever seen a bullet that hit soft soil without digging in. If you hit your target assuming your target is a Coyote or something with mass I wouldn't worry much at all... but if you miss then that could be another story. Just try not to shoot over any ridges where you can't see whats on the other side and you should be fine, I wouldn't worry about it much.
 
i dont know what you mean by bounce but most .223 from a bench with a 100 yard zero are in the dirt at about 400 yards
 
Ridges? We don't have those here. As for bounce, I hear stories of bullets tumbling instead of digging in.
 
Just to play devils advocate, lets say 200 yd zero, 500 yard shot, miss into frozen ground with an fmj. Thats about worst case scenario.
 
i think he means how far will it "BOUNCE", as in skip and keep going. Honestly i used to skip .22s off the surface of the ponds on our shrimp farm, and i got pretty good at getting them to go a couple hundred yards or so. A larger round going much faster if it landed right would likely go much much farther. I would be inclined to believe that it would bite dirt and tumble on the second bounce or so, but i could well be wrong.
 
Floorit76,
Are you asking how far a bullet will travel after ricocheting off of the ground?
If so there are a lot of variables. Too many to give a good answer. Too many to get consistent results. On flat land my guess would be you can see probably as far as a bounce might go.
Good thing you are trying to be responsible and look out for the safety of
others. I was pinned down by .22lr skipping off of water. I have also seen the marks where bullets have hit the ground and left it.
 
As already noted, there are too many variables.

However, as something to think about, I read that prior to WWII the Army had problems with .30-06 in training where the bullets were going through the berms of the target butts and causing damage to buildings which were thought to be in a safe area.

So downrange concerns are nothing to take lightly.

In areas with flat terrain and situations where you can't determine where the buildings (or farmers out working their fields) are, I think I'd go for the varmint bullets which are designed for thin-skinned game. If the bullet breaks up on impact, it would be much less likely to skip.
 
While hunting in Wyoming back in the 70's, I shot a coyote on a small rise about 300 yards from where I was sitting and after the 139 grain Spire point bullet exited the animal I saw 2 more dirt splashes that were way out behind the animal. Not sure how far but it was, but the 2nd splash was several hundred yards. I've done that same shot before and not seen anything. So there are alot of varibles that can happen, it's best be sure what is beyond your target for sure! Better safe than sorry!
 
Ricochet studies over flat ground show with a flight distance of 500 yards (level gun) the richochet distance is another 1600-1700 yards, total of 2100 to 2300 yards. Pretty well matches what I have seen. Fire a few tracers at night - it will dispell namy of the myths of bullet flight. Be prepared to improve your backstop.
 
The odd shots at coyotes concern me, but since I don't "hunt" just try to kill the ones that come too close, those shots are easy enough to account for. What worries me is my target range, where repeaeted shooting ups the mathematical possiblity of a stray. I can't build a berm where I shoot. There is about 1000-1200 yards to a short rise just tall enough to hide the road that is another 300-400 yards on the other side. Not to mention a house another 1000-1200 yards past that. I know that this is a loong way off, especially with a little 223, but my upbringing makes me nervous shooting anything centerfire.
 
I recently got a rangefinder. I think today I will try to get the accurate distances, instead of my guess-timates. It may be alot farther than I think. I want to go to v-max, but I'm still experimenting with what the rifle really likes. I bought a bunch of Hornady Tap, but I took some brass in to a friend, and he is recomending Sierra match kings which aren't ballistic tips.
 
Tracers

shugermaker is correct. Fire a few .22 or .223 tracers at night. I was amazed that some .22s bounced off a 6 foot sand backstop at 100 yards after going through 1/2 inch plywood. I was aiming at a target 2 feet above the ground from a bench.

Also bullets don't always dig in when they hit the ground. When I got my dear this year I shot from 6 feet above the deer at 50 yards. I inspected the hole the bullet left in the soft ground after passing through the deer expecting to find the bullet. After digging down 5 inches I found the bullet had hit a rock continued another 6 inches and came out of the ground. I was shooting reduced recoil .308 that day.
 
http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/AF/AFETL/etl_11_18.pdf

A bit more than most people need, but it gives an idea of what to expect rounds to do. If I owned the entire safety zone (which in the case of 1 property, 6 hours away, I do) OK. If the safety zone was on someone elses property, I'd fix the range, change my procedure, or shoot somewhere else. I think of myself in the other position - I don't want to give up use of acreage for someone else's fall zone, I assume others feel the same way. Here at home, I make sure the rounds don't leave my 13 acres. I'm installing a 3 x 6 3/8 ar500 plate at 30 degrees, using my mini-excavator to cut into a hillside for an 8 foot by 12 foot berm, I have a 200 foot hill for good measure. I will have a safe 35 yard range. I'd like longer, but the safety factor isn't there, so I'll pack up and drive 20 min for more than 100 foot shooting.

In VT a couple years ago We had a retired professor shot dead at his dinnertable by a guy that dumped a couple dumptrucks of sand in a settled area and then proceeded to use it as a rifle range, one day he overshot the berm... We gotta be extra careful, even when it cramps our style.
 
The far safest course of action is to use V-Max or other varmint bullets designed to self distruct on impact with the varmint, or the ground.

That is what they are for.

Don't worry about what your rifle likes.
If it won't shoot V-Max or Nosler Ballistic-Tip Varmint bullets, it won't shoot anything else either.

They are among some of the most accurate bullets I have ever used.

rc
 
FMJ's and even the humble 22 cal with solid lead bullets will cover a lot of ground after impact and are still trucking for quite some distance.

Back in NW Ohio where I grew up it was flat. During the early summer months before the crops had sprung up or after harvest in the fall the fields were dry. It was easy to observe bullets skip one or two times a few hundred yards behind the backstop. My brothers and I did an above average amount of shooting in the backyard and down by the creek a half mile away.

We used cut down tree trunks as a makeshift backstops. Come to think of it, it was a lousy backstop. There was a tree line and small woods a half mile downrange. There wasn't any houses or machinery behind us for a mile. We shot mostly 22lr's all day but we occasionally broke out centerfire mil surps, SKS's Lee Enfield, 98K Mauser all with surplus FMJ ammo. Those 303's and 8mm's would tear up the logs and some would leave the range.
 
I had a friend stick a .22 LR in my folks farm house from 1/4 mile away about 55 years ago.

He was shooting at turtles on our farm pond and one hit the water flat enough to keep right on trucking.

rc
 
We measured today. It's a mile from my shooting position to the road. And another 1000 yards to the neighbors house past that. There is some "roll" to the ground, hills and valleys of maybe 20-30' diffrence in a few spots.
 
This is a sore subject for me because I've come very close to being shot by less than reponsible shooter's. On more than one occasion I have been pinned down by bullets buzzing by me from a long ways away from someone shooting with no concern of what lays beyond their target. I think the best answer here is to make sure of your back stop and what is beyond. If there is any chance a bullet could physically impact a distant unintended object, don't take the shot.

I'll be honest in that, it bother's me that anyone would even ask this question. I had one fellow who nearly shot me tell me that he saw me, but didn't really think the bullet would go that far. Really?
 
It bothers you that I ask how far is safe?? I should automatically know?? I thought I was on "The High Road".
 
If you can find where they keep the info I am sure that Range Control, the people that manage live fire ranges for the military, has all the data you would ever want on this subject. Start e-mailing around and someone should let you know their standard on the minimum safe distance structures can be from a range.

Just make sure you ask about small arms ranges and don't get info for .50 cal, or 25MM ranges.
 
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