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Maybe you were wrong about Pocket Pistols

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Jeb Stuart, Oct 7, 2018.

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  1. DPris

    DPris Member Emeritus

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    TM has it.
    Small 9mm you COULD comfortably carry in a pocket, for very close use.
    Swap out the recoil spring every couple hundred rounds, just touch off a couple now & then to remember how.

    Emphatically not intended or built for regular longterm use.
    Which is NOT a flaw in the design, just a specialized defensive tool.
    Denis
     
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  2. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    Yes, Browning you are correct, However that is not the Urban slang definition that is common now. Regardless, I think we are all getting off track to the video series and the Modern day Pocket gun as a defensive tool.
     
  3. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    And it shows the evolution of similar firearms in size and weight. Now, we have Pocket guns, Micro 9 mm etc, that have the same or smaller design, and designed for sustained use and greater distances.(Provided the shooter trains). Night sights, better build, ballistics improving all the time. If you carry any gun, you own it to yourself to train with it, a gun sitting around collecting dust is probably the most dangerous gun to carry. Do not get into the belief that the gun is only good for very close quarters, when in fact with training, you can push the limits to much greater defense distances etc. If you are slow to draw any weapon, it is of no use. To correct that is just a matter of training. Consistent frequent, moderate practice.
    Drawing any gun, a large frame or pocket gun can be done each day in a persons own home. There is no excuse to not be able to draw your carry gun and draw it to center mass quickly. Any defensive tool is just part of the equation.

    Nightlord made a very important statement. "I am in and out of a lot of client sites downtown Chicago and I can't afford for someone to see a firearm - someone would raise a stink and the client most likely would ask me to not come back - end the contract etc... On the other hand I think Chicago is becoming a more dangerous place each day and I'm not walking around there unarmed"

     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  4. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Kinda like the Semmerling LM4
     
  5. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    So you are wasting time debating the meaning of a user name?

    Your repeated comment on extensive training with pocket guns is good, but I propose all that training time on a more easily shot gun would yield even greater results.

    But if all you can, or wish as barring health issues it is simply an issue of desire, carry is a little pocket gun then by all means, its better than nothing and might do the job. I'd prefer at least a 9mm or .38 spc, but to each their own.
     
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  6. Browning

    Browning Member

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    Those are actually the points that we've been trying to make.

    That in the era of micro 9's and .40's that the niche of needing to buy and carry a .22, .25, .32 or .380 has lessened. That the features on those pistols are also improving.

    And of course you need to train. Pretty much a given. That also almost always means a qualified instructor and several days where you can actually move and you aren't married to a booth or a bench.

    That was actually Count Zero and if I'm not mistaken he also carried that Rohrbaugh R9 9mm that he posted earlier along with a .380 or two as backups and another 9mm CZ-75 clone in his car.
     
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  7. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    This is a good point. I had some similar issues and tried a pocket gun in dress slacks and it actually printed more for me (Ruger LCP). What I found is a tuckable holster with a dress shirt, even reasonably tight fitting, slightly blouses for comfort, conceals even a big gun really well, toss a suitcoat on and it's gone for good. A little more practice is needed to rip the shirt away for a draw, but it's still faster than digging in a pocket for me

    I've surprised my wife a number of times after church or something as I'm taking off a dress shirt and she'll say "I didn't think you were carrying today!" Eventhough she knows I always carry and where I do.
     
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  8. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    My mistake, it was Countzero, Yes, training should be more than bench or booth, which I hate to begin with.(necessary evil) I belong to three different ranges, the best being a private club where I can spend weekends. The indoor ranges are within 5 min either direction so nice to make quick stops throughout the week. I also have a full set up in my back yard for training with a Pellet Pistol. Fast point and shoot. Some will laugh and give you grief, but I have been doing it for decades and I can truthfully say that it has helped wonders for the eye/memory muscles. Also easy to practice drawing skills for time.

    As far as pocket pistols, I believe they require a lot more training then people realize. Small barrel, harder to handle. etc. That said, all the obstacles can be over come. And you have a whole lot of fun doing it.

    And little 22.cals make great trainers for Point and shooting the small guns. Not to mention cost saving and fun.

    RN8kb4u.png 0OPluvK.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  9. Browning

    Browning Member

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    Well .. I guess pellet pistols might have some value for marksmanship practice.

    For the money though many pistol schools are using airsoft for force-on-force training. So I'd probably put the resources there if finances are an issue.

    So do I. That's why I believe that it's generally better for the majority to avoid them and go with something larger and easier to shoot unless they're back up guns. Even there you still needed training and need to keep that skill set current.

    I mean if someone has life circumstances where there's just no getting around it and they have to carry a pocket pistol/underwear gun or it's nothing at all then do what you have to.

    My argument is just that they're ...
    • Harder to shoot well (small often hard to see sights [I know that your Pico has decent sights, but that's not average], a reduced grip, miniature controls)
    • That some of them are finicky in regard to what ammunition they like.
    • That if you do get a good hit with them that correctly targets and hits the vital organs (but misses the CNS) that there is a substantial risk that the determined assailant might not be stopped right away.

    No argument there.
     
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  10. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    Tactical Pocket Pistol Tips with Dave Spaulding.
    The fastest will to the draw will be the weapon that you already have your hand on. (This was mentioned in a Previous Post, sorry, will have to go back and look that up.)

    PS (yes, Browning, air soft is a excellent choice as well. I just have been doing Pellet and BB pistols for so long, just never went to airsoft. I have about 15 or so replica Air Pistols. now. Also have a small range set up in my garage. Use a small Makarov and PPKS replica.)

     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  11. murf

    murf Member

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    just being an ass, my apologies. no, i don't practice on moving targets. a bad guy moving any direction other than right at me is not self defense, but second degree murder.

    if you want practice at moving targets, i suggest shooting skeet, or sporting clays.

    luck,

    murf
     
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  12. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    The opposite does make sense though, moving while shooting.

    One of the ranges I use is a normal, fixed position, range. The other is a PD range and there they allow, and even encourage, shooting while moving away from the target. It sounds simple, but it is something that needs to be practised to do it well (they also have to be able to trust the users trigger control enough to be willing to allow a shooter to practice something that may have them falling down while holding a loaded pistol).
     
  13. murf

    murf Member

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    agreed! dry-fire, or airsoft so you don't shoot yourself?

    murf
     
  14. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    This guy has a nice set up in his garage with air soft. Be sure and watch toward the end.

     
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  15. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    After practising a lot with airsoft, a couple of live fire exercises. That is something that annoys me about the 380 pocket pistol I carry. There is no airsoft version of it. As I reported a while ago, I managed to find an airsoft Glock 42. However, I have not been able to find an airsoft micro/mustang airsoft pistol. The closest thing on the market is the Detonics. For Airsoft I just use a 1911, at least the controls are similar.

    As odd as it seems, The existence of the airsoft trainer, and a good selection of active retention holsters, is a big factor weighing toward the Glock 42 as an EDC. I just enjoy shooting the Kimber Micro more. I suspect that has more to do with my using a 1911 when I went to the academy. On paper, the Glock is a better choice, but I just like the Kimber so much more.
    Glock_42_w_grip_tape_slide_release_sights.jpg

    IMG_20171224_055339460.jpg

    While I do not doubt that some here can easily switch carry pistols, for me, it is a bad idea. I need to practice with something very similar to what I will have under stress. That is why I got the Colt 380 Government Model back when it was new. I wanted a daily carry pistol that had the same controls and drills as my service pistol.

    IMG_20170728_120213559.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  16. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    That's essentially the same statement several people have been making in this thread a pocket gun is what you carry when you can't (not won't) conceal something more substantial and your refusal to acknowledge that is what makes me think you're trolling
     
  17. DPris

    DPris Member Emeritus

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    I've said all along if that's all you physically CAN carry, you do what you do.
    But- if you CAN carry a real gun & you deliberately choose a slingshot, just because you think a slingshot's cute & you'll never need it anyway, that's a different deal. :)
    Denis
     
  18. surjimmy

    surjimmy Member

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    Most people have no real life experience, they form their opinion from what they see on TV. I am a 45acp fan, I think it is about the best round for SD. With that said, I have no problem at all dropping my little 22 mag in my front pocket and going to town. You shoot someone "ANTWHERE" he's not going to keep coming for you, he's done His only thought is of getting away.
     
  19. DPris

    DPris Member Emeritus

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    Wrong.
    You CANNOT count on that.

    If he's sufficiently angry or sufficiently medicated, he won't even notice you've shot him.
    This is NOT TV.
    This is real life.
    Denis
     
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  20. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    removed comments
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  21. DPris

    DPris Member Emeritus

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    Think about it- personal attacks will occur in, typically, one of two ways:
    The guy's after something you've got (wallet, car).
    The guy's after YOU.

    In the first case, he MAY run off at the mere sight of your gun.
    He may just fire his own first, since whatever weapon he has will already be out when you go for yours.

    In the second, he'll be coming after you because he's pissed, for whatever reason.
    BELIEVE ME- if he's pissed enough, and/or if he's even moderately drugged out (booze, pills, meth), unless you can manage to put a through & through to the brain, he will literally not even be aware you shot him.
    and HE WILL NOT RUN AWAY. HE WILL KEEP COMING UNTIL OR UNLESS HIS BODY SHUTS DOWN, or till he shuts yours down.
    Which is much harder to accomplish against him with a short-barreled 5-shot .22 Mag than a more effective caliber.

    My statement here does not come from TV or random guesswork.
    I used to clean these shootings up for a living, as I keep mentioning.
    It ain't theory, it ain't guess, it ain't speculation, it ain't folklore, it's experience.
    Denis
     
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  22. DPris

    DPris Member Emeritus

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    Hasaf,
    You entirely miss ALL of my points.
    Denis
     
  23. Kendal Black

    Kendal Black Member

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    To answer the substantive question that is in the air, I think the fellow in the video is almost right, but if you think about it long enough you can figure out how to carry a J frame or an automatic of comparable size.

    To my mind, that is the low common denominator. If you are dealing yourself into going armed, stack the deck.
     
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  24. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok people after 4 pageswe are done here.

    Reopened as long as it remains civil
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  25. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    By the way, the little bit of trivia I threw in here to lighten things up is the gun Owned by Doc Holliday.

    This heavy little fellow is an 1866 Remington Derringer in .41 rimfire; single action, spur trigger, superposed barrels with an oscillating firing pin which fired each barrel in turn.

    https://dochollidaylive.biz/docs-guns/
     
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