Mega Thread of Batoning Wisdom
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Carl Levitian
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I don't know when this craze of battoning hit, but I think it's outright abuse of a knife. Is anyone paying attention to the fact that a hatchet, ax, machete or bolo, is tempered noticable lower than a knife?
A knife is a cutting tool. Not an ax, hatchet, pry bar, or log splitter. If you're going to be off in the boonies where if you need to get a fire going no matter what, then carry a folding saw. They work wonders. With a folding saw, saw halfway through a piece of kindling, then hit a tree, ground, rock, or some idiot batoning his knife, and the wood will split right down the grain pattern. I've split lots of wood using nothing but a Fiskars/Gerber sliding blade saw. Or my Opinel saw. It's easy, safer, used way less calories, and is quieter. Of course it's not as macho, wailing away on a bowie size knife, but then not all people see it that way.
I know there's plenty of videos out there on this that there should be no nee3d to beat on you knife. If all else fails, make a wooden wedge to drive in. This can be done with whatever pocket knife you have on you.
I wonder when we passed from the age of experienced outdoors men to fantasy camping?
Carl.
A knife is a cutting tool. Not an ax, hatchet, pry bar, or log splitter. If you're going to be off in the boonies where if you need to get a fire going no matter what, then carry a folding saw. They work wonders. With a folding saw, saw halfway through a piece of kindling, then hit a tree, ground, rock, or some idiot batoning his knife, and the wood will split right down the grain pattern. I've split lots of wood using nothing but a Fiskars/Gerber sliding blade saw. Or my Opinel saw. It's easy, safer, used way less calories, and is quieter. Of course it's not as macho, wailing away on a bowie size knife, but then not all people see it that way.
I know there's plenty of videos out there on this that there should be no nee3d to beat on you knife. If all else fails, make a wooden wedge to drive in. This can be done with whatever pocket knife you have on you.
I wonder when we passed from the age of experienced outdoors men to fantasy camping?
Carl.
JVoutilainen
Member
To be completely honest, I get a feeling that most people who make a big fuss about batoning have not. Some might, but most... I have my doubts.
Just look at the first video. To my eyes that is something between awkward and absolutely ridiculous. If you want to make fire that way, fine. What ever rocks your boat.
JVoutilainen
Member
Carl,
Good question.
Good question.
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lobo9er
Member
All camping is fantasy since about a 100 or so years ago, after electricity, bathrooms and furnaces started being in every house. If you choose to spend the night in the woods its for fun, same as it was 50 years ago. I fail to see your point. Batoning some kindling is hardly chest thumping. And the next time I see anyone use a wooden wedge they crafted while camping will be the first. But in the spirit of trying new things I will try it out this week. I doubt it will be easier than batoning with a knife, but we will see.
Mine is 1/4 with a 6 inch blade.
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lobo9er
Member
Ever watch a cold steel youtube ad? I'm just saying I was surprised to see the video of the knife breaking and the letter that came with the replacement.
PRM
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I guess it all comes down to individual thought process. As a kid I was taught to take care of my gear and equipment. Loose or break it and there wasn't money to replace it. I've carried the same fixed blade belt knife for years. It's been camping, on SAR call outs, annual training, and to Afghanistan and back. It's not a full tang survival wonder, really pretty basic, good carbon steel, that takes and holds and edge great (Puukko style). I have no doubt that batoning with it would be abuse, and it would not hold up to that type of use. If I am going to be out for a weekend or longer, I will have a belt axe and a folding saw.
Most days when I'm out on the farm or woods, you will find me carrying a Buck 110 folder or similar. Not going to baton with it either.
I personally see no need or have any desire to chop down trees with my knife.
Most days when I'm out on the farm or woods, you will find me carrying a Buck 110 folder or similar. Not going to baton with it either.
I personally see no need or have any desire to chop down trees with my knife.
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JVoutilainen
Member
lobo,
Oh really.
The village I live in got electricity in the 50s. And by the way, because of the unstable power grid (they don't bother to clear the lines) many people still have the means of living without electricity. Wood is commonly used to heat houses. This in a country with one of the highest penetration of wireless internet systems per capita. We had mobile bank access when the most common method of payment in the US was still a posted cheque.
Why don't you ask someone to show you how it is done properly, before you draw any conclusions. Besides, as many people have already pointed out, you don't need to split wood before you burn it. Also, if you know what to look for there is almost always plenty of dry kindling available - kindling that does not need to be chopped into smaller pieces. Furthermore, if you really know what you are doing you will gather kindling as you travel, so that you don't have to worry about it when you make camp. But hey, as I said, what ever puts a smile on your face.
Oh really.
The village I live in got electricity in the 50s. And by the way, because of the unstable power grid (they don't bother to clear the lines) many people still have the means of living without electricity. Wood is commonly used to heat houses. This in a country with one of the highest penetration of wireless internet systems per capita. We had mobile bank access when the most common method of payment in the US was still a posted cheque.
Why don't you ask someone to show you how it is done properly, before you draw any conclusions. Besides, as many people have already pointed out, you don't need to split wood before you burn it. Also, if you know what to look for there is almost always plenty of dry kindling available - kindling that does not need to be chopped into smaller pieces. Furthermore, if you really know what you are doing you will gather kindling as you travel, so that you don't have to worry about it when you make camp. But hey, as I said, what ever puts a smile on your face.
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average_shooter
Member
Damn, I wish I knew that when I was spending weeks at a time camped in the woodlands and deserts for work, as a requisite part of my job, for the past year.
Believe it or not, there's still some of us that are happy when we can shower and eat an actual meal once a week because we work in the woods the rest of the time.
I have to agree with the folks saying if you feel the need to use a knife to split logs into kindling, you don't really know what you're doing or how to prepare. Use the knife to shave the wood for fine fuel, then twigs, and so on, work your way up to logs. I've done it, it works great and saves energy to boot.
The guy in the videos says, "this is steel, this is wood" but I get the impression he doesn't really understand the correlation. An example: Table saws are really good are ripping boards but can still send one back through your gut when they hit a knot in the wood. I don't know why he assumes hammering on a knife will do what a power tool has difficulty with.
Ever read their FAQ?
http://www.coldsteel.com/faqs.html#Guaranteed
Q: Are Cold Steel knives guaranteed?
Warranty: We stand behind our knives and swords 100%. We subject them to the highest standards in the industry and strive to make each as perfect as possible. We warrant that our folding knives, fixed blade sheath knives, and swords are free from defects in workmanship and materials.
This warranty does not cover normal wear and tear, re-sharpening of the blade, damage caused by misuse, lack of normal maintenance, or disassembly.
Remember any knife or sword can break or fail if subjected to sufficient abuse, so please do not use our knives and swords inappropriately and remember no knife or sword should be used as an axe, hatchet, screwdriver, or pry bar.
Warranty: We stand behind our knives and swords 100%. We subject them to the highest standards in the industry and strive to make each as perfect as possible. We warrant that our folding knives, fixed blade sheath knives, and swords are free from defects in workmanship and materials.
This warranty does not cover normal wear and tear, re-sharpening of the blade, damage caused by misuse, lack of normal maintenance, or disassembly.
Remember any knife or sword can break or fail if subjected to sufficient abuse, so please do not use our knives and swords inappropriately and remember no knife or sword should be used as an axe, hatchet, screwdriver, or pry bar.
The videos are marketing and are clearly not intended to demonstrate correct usage of the products but rather to show off their durability.
The fact that they abuse the knives in the videos doesn't mean that they intend for you to use them in that manner any more than Ruger's published test of a P89/P85 meant that they wanted purchasers of their pistols to plug the barrels with bolts and then fire them.
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lobo9er
Member
ehh what ever, people can draw what ever conclusion they want about what I know about "camping" becuse I admit to batoning wood lol.
Cold Steel is going to come out with those rediculous commercials and then say that guy was to rough?
really?
Cold Steel is going to come out with those rediculous commercials and then say that guy was to rough?
really?
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lobo9er
Member
No I never read there warranty, I never bought a cold steel product.
Bobson
Member
I grew up splitting wood for years for use in my parents' wood-stove (we didn't have electric heat, and they just got a propane stove when I was 17). This is an excellent video. Thanks.
Ghost Tracker
Member
I don't know what the Becker warranty says. But I've "batoned" (glad I finally know what it's called) some wood with one. Yeah, I know knives would last a lot longer if they weren't (EVER) used as pry bars or axes, but sometimes it's easier to use the tool on your belt than to go back to the truck for an axe.
Rail Driver
Member
I sometimes baton wood with my Colt Jungle Commander (9" blade that is approx. 3/8" thick). It's held up to the abuse swimmingly. I wouldn't use any of my smaller knives for the purpose.
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lobo9er
Member
Right but CS commercials are implying that if needs be you could do those things with their knives. So are we never to actually test if they are telling the truth? And after one of there products fails its our fault? I have always found the CS ads to be a turn off, and if the warranty is as posted it just seems even more silly.
Just as Ruger's test with the P89/P85 implied that you could safely fire a P89/P85 with a plugged barrel. For example, if you had a squib lodge in the barrel the gun wouldn't come apart if you fired a second shot.
H&K used to advertise that as part of the testing process they lodged a bullet in the barrel and then cleared it by firing a second shot. Clearly the test implies you could safely do that if you absolutely had to, but I guarantee that if you had a squib at the range and decided to clear it by firing a second round instead of pushing the bullet out with a rod H&K would certainly claim that you had abused the gun.
That extra safety margin of strength is there so that if you absolutely can't clear the squib correctly you can just keep shooting. It's not put there to give owners carte blanche to abuse the gun.
Sure, test it all you like. Just don't expect the company to replace the product if damage occurs. The fact that a wide safety/strength margin is designed into a product as a selling point doesn't mean that the company will warrant the product if someone decides to test that safety/strength margin and ruins the product in the process.
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lobo9er
Member
disagree.
so if I ABSOLUTELY (hypathetical question) had to baton through wood I cant with a Cold Steel knife? The Cold Steel Knife actually wont survive doing things like they show in their ads?
so if I ABSOLUTELY (hypathetical question) had to baton through wood I cant with a Cold Steel knife? The Cold Steel Knife actually wont survive doing things like they show in their ads?
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lobo9er
Member
I would suggest owning an axe then. And while working in the woods I would imagine you have more than a bowie knife with you. You guys think I would or do chop fire wood all day with a fixed blade? Or am recommending not owning a maul? Its my opinion that Cold Steel makes claims how tough their stuff is and then cries dont abuse our blades.
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I addressed this in an earlier post.
If you want to baton through wood with one of the sturdier Cold Steel knives I think you could do it as long as you don't start out with the intent to destroy the knife.
1. Keep the strikes aligned so that the line of the force of the strike goes straight down through the line made by the edge of the knife and the spine of the knife. If you repeatedly strike at an angle significantly off that line it's highly unlikely that the knife will last very long.
2. Try to aim the strikes so that they hit the knife over the wood, not out on the tip of the knife where it overhangs the wood. If you're splitting huge logs, you're probably not going to be able to do that.
3. If you find that the knife suddenly stops moving through the wood in spite of vigorous strikes, consider that maybe it's time to find another piece of wood to split instead of finding a bigger piece of wood to hit the knife with.
Watch the CS video for the Pocket Bushman and note how the person in the video performs the batoning.
If you did break the knife in the process, it sounds like Cold Steel would replace it and advise you that they consider batoning to be abuse of the knife. In other words, if they treat you like the guy in the video, they would stand behind their product IN SPITE of the abuse but they would let you know that if you break it again while abusing it, you're on your own.
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PRM
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So your rant is about a product you don't own???
It can be done, and if the knife is heavy enough, you will get by. I find it interesting that even those who use this technique admit it is abuse. I'll keep my blades for cutting, and use an axe or saw for bigger tasks.
1. Wild Bear Model, from Kauhava, Finland's puukko making capitol. Designed and made by Harri Merimaa.
2. Buck 110 ~ Buck Custom Shop
3. SVORD Peasant Knife
4. Opinel #8, Olive Wood handle
5. DGW Buckskinners Hawk (1987)
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ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Emergencies
I have an emergency box in my truck.
In the box, along with the other emergency supplies, there are three or four different kinds of knife (hunting, fishing, utility/bait, and a large -- like #12 -- Opinel), a light folding saw, and an all-steel Estwing 26" camp axe.
(There's also a tire thumper in there. You never know when you'll need to baton a knife through some emergency cheese & salami.)
If I had to overnight out in the woods up here, I'd collect dry fallen wood if I could. Right now, however, there's a blanket of snow over pretty much everything (no, not feet of snow, just inches), so random dry wood collection might be impaired. If I had to chop the firewood, the axe would be the go-to tool.
If I had to hike out, the axe would likely stay behind, depending on circumstances (it's not light), but in that case the folding saw would come. I generally have all the knives I'm likely to need on my person, but there's enough variety in the box to take up any slack.
If I worked at it, I could probably contrive a scenario where I might need to baton a knife, but in all my outdoor years I've never identified one.
It's good to know that I have that option, you know, if I've had to tear off my shirt to use as a tourniquet for a fallen friend, and my trousers for carrying water, and, uh, something ate my shoes, and all I had left was a knife and my underwear (pretty sure that chapter would be considered "badly written"), it's comforting that I could split logs with my knife by beating on it with other logs and then start a fire by rubbing my toe nails together.
However, since my caveman card is set to expire before too long, I'm probably just going to cheat and make sure I have an axe and/or a saw with me.
I mean, can you see me, aging and overweight geek, stuck in the woods and breaking my best knife? Can you imagine the consternation? Why, those dirty rats! I'm gonna grab my cell and file a complaint . . . what? . . . no signal? Crap!
It may be inconvenient to carry the extra ounces of an axe, but given the alternatives, I'll take it.
I have an emergency box in my truck.
In the box, along with the other emergency supplies, there are three or four different kinds of knife (hunting, fishing, utility/bait, and a large -- like #12 -- Opinel), a light folding saw, and an all-steel Estwing 26" camp axe.
(There's also a tire thumper in there. You never know when you'll need to baton a knife through some emergency cheese & salami.)
If I had to overnight out in the woods up here, I'd collect dry fallen wood if I could. Right now, however, there's a blanket of snow over pretty much everything (no, not feet of snow, just inches), so random dry wood collection might be impaired. If I had to chop the firewood, the axe would be the go-to tool.
If I had to hike out, the axe would likely stay behind, depending on circumstances (it's not light), but in that case the folding saw would come. I generally have all the knives I'm likely to need on my person, but there's enough variety in the box to take up any slack.
If I worked at it, I could probably contrive a scenario where I might need to baton a knife, but in all my outdoor years I've never identified one.
It's good to know that I have that option, you know, if I've had to tear off my shirt to use as a tourniquet for a fallen friend, and my trousers for carrying water, and, uh, something ate my shoes, and all I had left was a knife and my underwear (pretty sure that chapter would be considered "badly written"), it's comforting that I could split logs with my knife by beating on it with other logs and then start a fire by rubbing my toe nails together.
However, since my caveman card is set to expire before too long, I'm probably just going to cheat and make sure I have an axe and/or a saw with me.
I mean, can you see me, aging and overweight geek, stuck in the woods and breaking my best knife? Can you imagine the consternation? Why, those dirty rats! I'm gonna grab my cell and file a complaint . . . what? . . . no signal? Crap!
It may be inconvenient to carry the extra ounces of an axe, but given the alternatives, I'll take it.
When camping, I always bring an axe along with my knives. I have knives that are 30 to 40+ years old, and still in great shape. I have never abused them. Heck, my camp axe is at least 40 years old. I bought it when I was a boy scout.
Yep, I have a "big" knife now, but I would not get upset if I was abusing it and it broke. Would serve me right. That is what my machete is for, which has been used hard, but is still in good shape.
Yep, I have a "big" knife now, but I would not get upset if I was abusing it and it broke. Would serve me right. That is what my machete is for, which has been used hard, but is still in good shape.
TimboKhan
Member
Not that anyone said anything about it, but i meant to say that it is safer and less energy intensive to cut small branches, not logs. Sorry.
Also, while i am no huge fan of it, why the dislike? I mean, i agree that it is abusive, but isn't it better to know how to do a technique like this and never need than need it and not have the experience to do it? It's just something to add to the toolbox, not something to replace the whole set of tools.....
Also, while i am no huge fan of it, why the dislike? I mean, i agree that it is abusive, but isn't it better to know how to do a technique like this and never need than need it and not have the experience to do it? It's just something to add to the toolbox, not something to replace the whole set of tools.....
Cold Steel doesn't make knives - they sell knifes made for them - they make money lots of it. I have a few Cold Steel knifes and I like them they are the sharpest knifes from the factory. But they are made to cut and slice not chop or pry.
If you want to batton buy a Busse or Swamp rat or Scrap Yard knife - they are made to batton with.
BTW, the only thing I ever battoned was a cuisinart kitchen clever thru some 1/2 frozen lobster tails - cuisinart clevers do not hold up well to battoning! It survived but the edge bent.
I have read that knots are very hard and if you want to break your knife while battoning try going thru a nice hard knot in the wood.
If you want to batton buy a Busse or Swamp rat or Scrap Yard knife - they are made to batton with.
BTW, the only thing I ever battoned was a cuisinart kitchen clever thru some 1/2 frozen lobster tails - cuisinart clevers do not hold up well to battoning! It survived but the edge bent.
I have read that knots are very hard and if you want to break your knife while battoning try going thru a nice hard knot in the wood.
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