"Mil Spec AR Only!"

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Welding Rod

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How come it is vital for many that an AR be "mil spec" to have any value in the vital primary role it holds occupying the inside of a civilian's safe or the trunk of the car.

While the handgun carried on one's side that actually stands a far greater likely hood of being used for self-defense can be any old model or variant that strikes one's fancy?

Seems the Mil Spec crowd would be clamoring for only Berretta 9mm sidearms?

Thoughts?
 
Because people want an AR as close to theater M4s as possible, or because they intend to put alot of rounds through their rifle (multiple carbine courses, lots of range time), or because in a SHTF or EOTWAWKI scenario, they want something that will be utterly dependable and not be as likely to break.
 
You are missing the point.

"Mil Spec" just means that it follows the TDP. This is the absolute MINIMUM that a M16 style weapon should follow.

Your comparison to the pistol doesn't hold up because then you are referring to different weapons systems. For instance an FN scar doesnt' follow the TDP but would be considered a good defensive Carbine. The reason being that the important details are there. Proper materials, built to a certain level of quality, etc, etc.

It is more like comparing that M9 to a Jennings instead of the M9 to a Glock or HK.
 
Mil Spec also ensures that it will be built to certain sizing standards. With the huge amount of aftermarket parts and accessories out there, if every AR manufacturer had different sizing specs for his buffer tubes, rails, etc, i would be a huge pain. Mil Spec ensures that all parts will work between brands, etc.
 
It has nothing to do with any of that.

Mil-spec. means that any other Mil. Spec. manufacturer's components will work in it. IE interchangeable parts. It more like Mil-spec. = common spec. It literally it means that it meats the military's specifications. If you had 15 AR manufacturers making similar parts, they might as well be vastly different.....close doesnt count. Etc, etc......

Dont confuse it with "Tactic-cool"

Yeah, what shadowman said....
 
Mil spec is the Governments way of trying to limit problems like the problem with the M9 slide breaking, and like others said, for buying similar parts. It doesn't necessarily mean a mil spec gun is more reliable, accurate, or anything like that, it simply means that you can look up exactly how the company that made that part claims to have made it.

btw... unless you have quite a bit of money and a class 3 license, you cannot legally own a mil spec AR-15.
 
Some things even exceed mil-spec such as the thicker commercial buffer tube. But boy ain't it a PITA to find a stock to fit one.
 
Because standard parts will fit for replacements, upgrades, etc. If someone wants to bring out an AR lower with different size takedown pin holes, for example, no other upper receivers will work except theirs.
 
You are looking at the M9 thing all wrong. If you could have a mil-spec Beretta 92 or a non mil-spec Beretta 92, which would you choose? Now, non mil-spec doesn't mean it won't work properly, just that if you want to want to upgrade or repair anything it will be easier to go with mil-spec.

Another aspect that others have touched on is that in a weapon system as modular as the AR15 where many people will be switching out parts here and there, it is important for all parts to fit properly.
 
I think the Government bought the TDP from Colt in 1968. Back then the Government owned and controlled technical data packages.

Fast forward fifty years and now there is no organic technical ability left in the Government. Prime Contractors are made "Lead System Integrators" because the Government is too incomponent to manage a program. Simply put, Government managers are Sock Puppets.

Now the Government pays the Prime Contractor to design and build the system against performance requirements other Contractors wrote, and lets the Prime keep the Technical Data Package.

Mil Spec now simply means Contractor Spec.

For legacy systems like the M16, the Government may still "own" the Technical Data Package. Does not mean they understand it or have any real oversight of the product.

I think Colt owns the M4 data package.
 
When people say "milspec AR15", they mean milspec other than the lower receiver and trigger parts that must be changed to comply with NFA. It would just be a pain to write that out evey time.

There are definitely plenty of milspec parts that are not the best ones on the market. Just a few examples:

-KAC rails have long since been surpassed functionally by numerous other designs.
-Ambi selector is better than one-sided milspec
-A2 grip is probably the least ergonomic AR grip ever conceived
-All the military spec optic mounts (for Aimpoints, ACOGs) are inferior to multiple models in the civilian market.
-M4 milspec stock probably has the most rattle and least overall function of any carbine stock on the market today.

There are several (what amount to) construction techniques that are functionally desirable from a reliability standpoint that got popular due to being implemented on the military rifles. These are the kinds of things you learn about when building accurate-as-possible military clone rifles. :)

But the actual answer to the original question: You don't "need" a "milspec" AR to serve self defense role at home or in the trunk of your car. What is the *max* amount of ammo you are going to be shooting in such a situation, which is already incredibly remote? 30rds max? 30rds would be a very high estimate in such a situation for anyone who doesn't harbor Red Dawn wet dreams. Any functional AR can easily exceed that number by an order of magnitude with no cleaning or maintenance.

The desireable milspec construction techniques are really only a tangible positive on rifles that may see thousands of rounds and/or will get shot till they break. If you are going to be shooting it that much, there are few that will argue that a milspec upper shouldn't be on your shopping list.
 
I have said for years that 'mil-spec' isn't something to strive for in excellence. Use enough military gear, and you quickly realize that in the military, every piece of equipment you are issued is made by the cheapest bidder. I replace or supplement ALL of the gear I trust my life to, and that would include my weapons if I were allowed.

As far as ARs, quality, mil-spec, 'the chart', blah blah blah, I had a STAKED mil-spec gas key come loose. Cram your chart.
 
Some "Mil-Spec" attributes are good. The right extractor spring and "O" ring in a carbine will assure a more positive function, as well as the right buffer.
Some things really aren't necessary. Some bolts will be MPI or "magnetic particle inspected" which means they've been tested for surface deformities and found OK. That doesn't mean non MPI inspected bolts are bad. And even MPI bolts may have problems that MPI won't reveal.
For those who insist that their AR or M4orgery be "mil-spec" keep in mind that one part of "mil spec" is full auto or tri burst fire .... and unless you can get that $200.00 government stamp of approval you won't have that.
As prior posters have said commercial ARs are still capable of chewing through a lot of ammo.
And also keep in mind that soldiers in the sandbox have complained about their "mil spec" government approved FA guns.
Ain't nothin' in life perfect.....
 
I have said for years that 'mil-spec' isn't something to strive for in excellence.
Click to expand...

Yep. Much of what the military uses has a mil spec. Means it meets an established specification and was manufactured by the lowest bidder.
 
I have said for years that 'mil-spec' isn't something to strive for in excellence. Use enough military gear, and you quickly realize that in the military, every piece of equipment you are issued is made by the cheapest bidder. I replace or supplement ALL of the gear I trust my life to, and that would include my weapons if I were allowed.

As far as ARs, quality, mil-spec, 'the chart', blah blah blah, I had a STAKED mil-spec gas key come loose. Cram your chart.
Click to expand...

Amen, brother.
 
For those who insist that their AR or M4orgery be "mil-spec" keep in mind that one part of "mil spec" is full auto or tri burst fire .... and unless you can get that $200.00 government stamp of approval you won't have that.
Click to expand...

Unless the weapon is accepted by the Government, it is not "mil spec".

I am curious to know if anyone can show that commercial Colt firearms are made to the same standards and on the same production line as the military firearms? I understood, from the Rock Island Item manager, that there are two production lines. To keep the civilian stuff separate from the military.
 
There are enough parts differences to where two lines would make sense:

-Lowers and trigger parts are obviously different.
-In the case of non-NFA carbines, the barrel is longer.
 
"Mil Spec" just means that it follows the TDP. This is the absolute MINIMUM that a M16 style weapon should follow.
Click to expand...
Exactly. RRA, BM, etc, are cutting corners IMO. The lowest bidder builds a better rifle. If the lowest bidder can build a rifle with a shot-peened MPI bolt, taper pins in the FSB, and forged receiver extensions, why cant the "big guys?"

I agree that mil-spec isnt something to strive for in excellence, but it is a step in the right direction. If a GM Hyrdomatic can function with rounded locking lugs, a BCG and FCG that doesnt have any of the finish left on it, and didnt have to have the FSB smacked with a hammer to to sight it in, something was done right.

Some things even exceed mil-spec such as the thicker commercial buffer tube. But boy ain't it a PITA to find a stock to fit one.
Click to expand...
Uh, no, sorry.

Basically, you're assuming the 1/2" bolt from the zinc bin is stronger than the grade 8 7/16 bolt because its bigger. There are many more factors at play.
 
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I stick with mil-spec to the extent that parts are interchangeable. I like Armalite, and they are milspec enough that any standard trigger, handgaurd, buttstock, etc. will fit.

Other than that, I could care less


If a GM Hyrdomatic can function with rounded locking lugs
Click to expand...

Lugs? The only thing resembling a "lug" would be the park pawl.
 
I was referring to the M16s that GM built for Uncle Sam 40 years ago.

As for the park pawl, that would be inside the transmission, which is out of my territory...
 
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