Military Crimp Removal w/RCBS Military Crimp Remover bit

[Wildkow]

OK, finally got my press, XL650, and some components and now some questions. BTW, thanks ahead of time for your time and attention to this matter. First thing is I pickedup some military brass with crimped primer's. So I purchased the RCBS case prepreation power center and the RCBS military crimp remover bit as seen below.



My questions are . . .

1) Does the RCBS Military Crimp Remover seem to be doing it's job or did it remove too much brass around the crimp?

Before crimp removal . . .


After crimp removal . . .








2) Are these case's below safe to use?






Thanks Wildkow

 

[rcmodel]

It's taking way too much metal out of the primer pocket.

All you want to do is remove the little crimp lip that overhangs into the primer pocket and bevel it very slightly.
No need at all to bevel it clear down inside the pocket that far.

Can you loosen the set-screw and adjust it?

The dented cases are fine.
The smaller ones will iron out when you resize them, and the deeper ones will blow out when you shoot them.

Dents are only dangerous if they occur back near the case head where they could allow gas leakage into the action.

rc

 

[Wildkow]

Wow thanks for the quick reply. That's what I thought too! Yes it is adjustable thank goodness. RCBS told me they were pre-adjusted from the factory but maybe I got one that was overlooked. Wish I could find info about this tool on the RCBS web site but I can't even find the product in their online shipping site, much specs for OAL. LOL! Guess I'll give them a call.

Thanks once again

Wildkow

 

[Wildkow]

OK just got off the phone and RCBS told me that this call comes in many times from concerned reloaders. But there is nothing wrong with the military crimp remover bit. What reloaders are seeing is an optical illusion and if they still have concerns stop the case prep process and load a few rounds to check if the primer seats properly. On to this step will report back later.

Wildkow

p.s. BTW RCBS seems to be a pretty good company I purchased the FlashHole deburring tool. For my 9mm I was told to use the .35 cal case pilot stop but it doesn't fit. I got it from MidwayUSA but RCBS didn't hesitate to send me out another one. Sweet!

p.p.s. Hmmmm, rcmodel, you fly them or does that mean something else?

 

[rcmodel]

Optical Illusion huh?

Well, O.K. then!!

Still looks like a pretty excessive Optical Illusion to me.

rc

 

[something vague]

I personally would not load those. I would def adjust that tool if possible. What's the sense to take so much material when it isn't neccessary. Just take enough off to knock that crimp off enough to seat a primer. You shouldn't need any instructions to do this. Just adjust until you can visually see that most of the crimp is gone. Start the adjustment so it is not taking enough and work up until it just clears the pocket. Test seating a primer and then there is no more worries.

 

[Wildkow]

I personally would not load those. I would def adjust that tool if possible. What's the sense to take so much material when it isn't neccessary. Just take enough off to knock that crimp off enough to seat a primer. You shouldn't need any instructions to do this. Just adjust until you can visually see that most of the crimp is gone. Start the adjustment so it is not taking enough and work up until it just clears the pocket. Test seating a primer and then there is no more worries.

Well I think I can already do that with my "Primer Pocket Uniformer" bit can I just use that instead of the extra crimp remover step?

Wildkow

 

[D. Manley]

Optical Illusion huh?

Well, O.K. then!!

Still looks like a pretty excessive Optical Illusion to me.

rc

I agree...way more brass removed than necessary. All that's required is to be able to seat primers normally, no more. I'd suggest going at it from a minimal approach...start on the low side with a few, check primer seating and go from there. On my military brass (although using a Dillon Super-Swage) it just takes a little to do the job. Looking at the cases visually, the crimp ring is still plainly visible but there's no hint of restriction when seating primers. I think I'd be a little leery of the cases in the pix putting enough "grab" on the primers but only you can tell for sure.

 

[Wildkow]

Ok this is what has transpired . . .

I seated 3 primer's . . .





I know what your thinking, "way to deep" but I can assure you that what you are looking at is indeed an optical illusion. Those primers are only a curlyhair away from being flush with the bottom of the case. Additionally the round on the right was reamed with the "Primer Pocket Uniformer" bit only. If you look closely you can see some of the crimp still remains. I did not notice any additional effort needed to seat this primer.

After this I Mic'd the MCR ("Military Crimp Remover" bit) 1.002", loosened the set key and tried to reset the cutting part of the bit, (it's just a case neck deburring tool) to a shallower depth. What a PIA! :banghead: After multiple tries I discovered that it would not cut worth a damn and left a substantial portion of the crimp behind no matter what depth I set it at even though I pushed it all the way in! It never cut to the same depth as before. I'm speculating here but I suspect they cut the carrier piece to an exact depth and then press the “Neck Deburring Tool” in under a substantial amount of pressure, before tightening the set key. Here are the photo's . . .



You can see on several of the rounds that I can't even remove all traces of the crimp!

It seems my only recourse is to load up some rounds and go shooting.

"I know you have chores for me baby but home defense and your safety come first around here. See you later this afternoon."

Wildkow

p.s. Will report asap. Thanks for all your input.

 

[Wildkow]

Blast, i don't think I'm going to make it to the range. Leaving Fri for vacation and too much stuff to do. I'll resurrect this thread later when I get back. Sorry.


Wildkow

 

[Seedtick]

Wildkow - What a PIA! After multiple tries I discovered that it would not cut worth a damn and left a substantial portion of the crimp behind no matter what depth I set it at even though I pushed it all the way in! It never cut to the same depth as before. . . .

Hey Wildkow, I've not seen a RCBS crimp remover up close but from what I can see in the picture in your first post followed by your description sounds to me like the cutter is now rubbing. There isn't enough clearance behind the cutting edge. It probably relies on nothing but circular clearance, in an effort to prevent 'chatter', when even 1 degree of positive relief would be better. I bet that now it is even leaving a bit of a burr on the edge of the chamfer. If you know a machinist they may be able to fix it for you. Experienced hands could get you going in a couple of minutes or less. HTH

ST

 

[Wildkow]

OK loaded some rounds up and these are the results as best I can determine.

On my Dillon XL650 I found that I could definitively feel each primer being seated in the .223 case whereas while loading 9mm (commercial brass) I found it hard to feel the primer being seated at all. That being said I must point out that I am brand new to reloading and have only reloaded a couple of hundred rounds in both 9mm and .223 calibers. I did crush one primer (.223) but could not determine the reason as it was not discovered until after the reloading process and I was examining rounds. However, from my examination of this round it does not appear as if the crimp was removed or that it even went through the process of removal.

Here is my reloading data . . .
Brass: Winchester (Military)
Bullet: Wideners Mil-Spec .223 75gr HPBT
Primer: Wolf SR
Powder 23-25 gr Hodgdon H335

Results, five recovered empty cases had a primer missing; one jammed the rifle ending the day; one misfire showing a light firing pin strike. Two of the missing primers clearly came from rounds that had the deeper cut from before I fiddled with the tool/bit and somehow, after reassembly, ended up with a shallower cut despite all attempts to return it to the original cutting depth. The other three are hard to tell. None of the other rounds, with primers intact, had evidence that the primer was moved either into the case due to primer strike or outwards from recoil, in other words all primers seemed to be still seated to the correct depth.
Conclusion: I think I will save my money up and get the Dillon Super Swage as there seems to be little documentation, instructions or otherwise on the RCBS tool with which to determine whether I am using it correctly. RCBS says to just push the brass down until it stops cutting and that if it appears that the cut is too deep, well that’s just an optical illusion.

Tool grade: C if I knew more about reloading I would probably be more confident in the use of this tool and more likely to use it correctly. Not for novices in my opinion.

Wildkow

 

[D. Manley]

Tool grade: C if I knew more about reloading I would probably be more confident in the use of this tool and more likely to use it correctly. Not for novices in my opinion.

Everybody starts as a novice. On crimped brass, best advice I could offer (regardless of the method used to remove the crimp) is start low and work up. Process a few and seat primers...if they seat easily but snugly, good & if not, go a little more. Overdone brass is wasted, underdone can be fixed.

 

[longdayjake]

I have shot cases prepped this way and I too have had primers pop out of relatively light loads. Its a crappy tool at best. I have used the rcbs press tool that gets rid of military crimps, but it is very time consuming. I have since bought a super swager and it is a great tool, however I have found some rounds will not fit correctly in it to allow it to go into the part that swags the primer pocket. This happened maybe 1 out of 100 rounds.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I bought a simple primer pocket swagger from RCBS which does both large and small primer pockets for just over $25 and it works perfectly.

 

[Roccobro]

If your only doing a few hundred or so, I've been tickled with the Hornady reamer. Just 2 twists and it removes all the crimp material.

but in larger batches I clamp the Dillon SS to the bench and get to it!

Justin

 

[USSR]

Conclusion: I think I will save my money up and get the Dillon Super Swage...

Smart move.

Don

 

[Jmurman]

I also use the RCBS hand Swager and it works perfectly fine for my needs.

 

[ohioshooter]

i use the Dillon 650 Swage tool and it works great for me

 

[Redneck with a 40]

3 words......dillon super swage.

 

[D. Manley]

3 words......dillon super swage.

I sure like mine but the OP can still "overdo" it with the DSS if he does'nt go easy until he gets the feel for it. Don't ask me how I know.......

 

[ArchAngelCD]

BTW, the part number for the RCBS Pocket Swager Combo is #9495. RCBS has a MSRP of $35.95 on it but like I said above, it can be had for just over $25.

Here is the link on Midway for that product. The are showing a price of $26.99 and it's in stock.

 

[Sport45]

I know what your thinking, "way to deep" but I can assure you that what you are looking at is indeed an optical illusion. Those primers are only a curlyhair away from being flush with the bottom of the case.

I'm thinking you didn't seat the primers deep enough. Primers should be seated to the bottom of the primer pocket every time.

 

[Martyk]

RCBS Trim Mate

FWIW - I've been using the trim mate and have processed about 500 rounds with the crimp removal tool.

I can say this...I had concerns about the large chamfer also, but all the primers seated well and I never had a blown out primer in either .308 or .223. I do however try to minimize the amount of cutting in the primer pocket. I don't typically go all the way down until it bottoms out, but just enough to remove the crimp. Sometimes I do end up with rounds that look like the above, but they haven't presented a problem for me (yet??)

I think it's something you need to develop a feel for. The Dillon Super Swager always looked like a great tool and if I didn't buy the Trim Mate, I would have bought the SS.

 

[NoAlibi]

ArchAngelCD
I bought a simple primer pocket swagger from RCBS which does both large and small primer pockets for just over $25 and it works perfectly.

+1

Pros: Almost no learning curve - No lost cases - Works every time - Low cost.

Cons: Slower than the DSS - Added cost to buy another tool.