KINGMAX
Member
What happened to ' To Protect and Serve ', now it's more like 'We the FED's against all you Heads'
Everyone doesn't do drugs, drink and beat their wife and kids.
Everyone doesn't do drugs, drink and beat their wife and kids.
Military Police?
- Thread starter ArmedBear
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Ratzinger_p38
Member
Typical elitist attitude. Why not replace 'apc' with 'machine gun', 'assault weapon', or 'semi-auto rifle'? For the record, you CAN get APCs - a number of reenactment groups have them...minus the MG's they are essentially a tractor.
thexrayboy
Member
The APC's the helicopters, the M16's, the BDU's....none of these are the problem. They are merely symptoms of the disease. The disease is elitism. The idea that LEO is superior to citizens. That they need to be capable of operating on a war footing. To even suggest that these newly acquired capabilities will be abused is tantamount to heresy. The problem with this issue is not the inanimate objects, it is the people who possess them and the use and misuse that occurs because they possess them.
SWAT and elite police units should not exist in a truly free republic, the fact that they exist indicates our freedoms are in grave peril. Paramilitary police squads are the shutzstaffel of our time. They are no longer public servants whose job it is to protect society but stormtroopers hiding behind official immunity and ski masked anonymity as they prey on citizens. SWAT teams cause far more harm than good and so should be barred from existence and disbanned immediately. If it saves the life of one innocent citizen it is worth dumping the all to the scrap heap of history.
SWAT and elite police units should not exist in a truly free republic, the fact that they exist indicates our freedoms are in grave peril. Paramilitary police squads are the shutzstaffel of our time. They are no longer public servants whose job it is to protect society but stormtroopers hiding behind official immunity and ski masked anonymity as they prey on citizens. SWAT teams cause far more harm than good and so should be barred from existence and disbanned immediately. If it saves the life of one innocent citizen it is worth dumping the all to the scrap heap of history.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Keep in mind that isnt 100% true. Many of the SWAT units are under the authority of the county - the highest elected police official that answers to the people. Any screw up THEY are the guys that are held accountable. Problem is, the 'blue wall' seems to come up quick.
The BATF is other story, but I wont comment on them since the topic has been beat to death on this MB.
Well, contrary to what you might think, getting copters and tanks isnt that hard - hell even Michael Dorn (guy who played Worf on Star Trek) owns a P80 Shooting Star - its getting armed ones that is.
This all dates back to the end of the militia system. Back then, the start of steel ships had started, and it wasnt that people COULDNT have them, its just that only the government could afford to build them. The next technology leap was common light machine guns (not crew-served ones like the Maxim) and submachine guns. When the M1921 Thompson and the M1928 Thompson became common weapons, there in lies the start of 'elitism' - the National Firearm Act .
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
Let me just start off by saying that I am NOT an advocate of any form of gun control. That being said:
What purpose do MG's serve for the people other than they are just plain fun to shoot? We sit here and complain about what we can't have, but in most states you can get fully automatic firearms. You just need to have a Class III license. Which if you got the money for the license and the Class III firearms have at it. Other than that quit whining.
Some of the things that are written on this board appear to be no more than a mirror image of the liberal paranoia propaganda.
By the way, I am hardly an Elitist. I just exercise common sense. But I also know that there is a severe lack of that in today's world.
What purpose do MG's serve for the people other than they are just plain fun to shoot? We sit here and complain about what we can't have, but in most states you can get fully automatic firearms. You just need to have a Class III license. Which if you got the money for the license and the Class III firearms have at it. Other than that quit whining.
Some of the things that are written on this board appear to be no more than a mirror image of the liberal paranoia propaganda.
By the way, I am hardly an Elitist. I just exercise common sense. But I also know that there is a severe lack of that in today's world.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Keeps us on equal footing. What makes the police more qualified? Oh thats right I am supposed to put unending trust in them, as 'only the police and military need MGs'. And your NFA comment, yeah the registry is closed and it drove the cost of most machine guns exceeded 10K each, even for American autos like BARs . Now they are toys for the rich, a different kind of elistism.
Keep in mind 'common sense' is one of the most favorite buzz word terms for gun control advocates - they dont want gun bans, just 'common sense gun legislation'.
Just to clear some things up, I am not a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I know most police are fine people. I served my country as an infantryman, so I know the military half of the argument. I am probably misunderstanding you a bit too, but your first comment struck me the wrong way. I see you are USAF...sad to say when I was in the Army, more of the Air Force guys werent as strong on the 2A as I thought they would be. (Before you accuse me of typical Army bashing of the 'chair force' - my father is a retired B52 pilot, and when I first wanted to join the military, I wanted to join the USAF, but at that time only had a GED).
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
Just to clear things up, I wasn't referring directly to you. I was thinking on a general basis. I apologize if it came across that way. Thank you for your service by the way.
As far as machine guns being readily available? I am glad their not. We have all seen the numerous amount of videos of idiots mishandling their toys. I am glad that these idiots can't get their booger hooks on machine guns. I can only imagine the number of accidents that would result from that. Not everybody is a responsible gun owner.
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
A little inter-service rivalry never hurt anybody. Sadly, I think that your point about us not being strong on the 2A is true. It seems that many of us have forgotten the rights that we have sworn to defend.
I don't think that it is a Service Branch problem either. In my opinion, the american people as a whole have forgotten what it means to be free. A very small percentage of us actually bother to educate ourselves. The vast majority just believe whatever BS the media spews from their mouths.
pcosmar
member
Simple, to stand on equal footing with the enforcers of a corrupt government.
As the founders intended.
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
The founders weren't dealing with laser guided bombs, fighter jets, satellites, helicopter gunships, tanks, cluster bombs, Level 4 body armor, or any other advantage they may have over us.
The idea that an uprising may actually be successful is so farfetched it actually makes me giggle a little bit when people talk about it. Please get away from ideas like this. It makes us all look like lunatics. If you want to defend your freedom do it the only way possible. Keep legislature like HR 1022 from even being considered.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
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lol heck its a ton harder to get on a police force than it is a lotta other things. getting into college comes to mind. heck for one all you need is a mom or dad willing to let you suckle for an extra 4 or maybe 6 years
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Ah, but here in lies the issue with that - Most of us cant afford said toys. As I said, some millionaire actors can afford surplus fighter jets (Shooting Star) then more power to them.
And a fellow reenactor friend owns a LIVE M4 Sherman. And I know a guy who owns a live Pershing tank.
Mayberry was fiction, in that it NEVER really existed. Mayberry never had murders, never had parents beating or raping their children. Mayberry had Otis, who was always drunk, but always harmless, but didn't seem to have the drunk who drove through a Stop sign and killed a couple driving home from a date. Mayberry didn't have clandestine meth labs, or a wide variety of gangs who will use violence, including murder for criminal profit. AGAIN, Mayberry was fiction and never existed. Real places, including small towns, have always had lots of evil things going on, although many people were, and some still are, in denial about that.
If you start by whining that modern cops aren't like Andy and Barney in Mayberry, you've already proven your argument is not based in reality. You're asking for the real world to operate like a TV show!
Every time someone talked about the now defunct federal "Assault Weapons Ban" or some of the current state and local "Assault Weapons Bans" people on this and other forums loudly complain that those guns shouldn't be targeted because of how they look. They vociferously argue that how something looks is a completely stupid reason to oppose something. Hell the term "Evil Black Rifle" is frequently used on gun forums as a result, to point out the stupidity of attacking something merely for how it looks. However, your thesis here shows you think nothing more than how something looks is a perfectly valid reason to get upset over something, or someone.
Thanks for showing us what kind of logic you use, and what kind of people you share your thought process with when you decide to champion a cause. I'll let the Brady Campaign know you fully support their logic and tactics.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
DMF, I misstated - they DO use the same uniform - at least the SWAT is. Better for you? What does that say about America when the military and police are starting to be issued the same uniforms? How about the latest ops on their M4 cabines? Interchangeable perhaps?
As for the rest of it, Ill let you continue to live in your own fantasy world because the rest of your point is so inane I didnt read most of your post. Sorry I didnt fall lock and step to your rhetoric.
Malice
Member
CombatArmsUSAF:
Are you serious about the idea of citizen-led armed opposition to our government being a joke?
It seems like the joe shmo's in Iraq are doing a pretty good job resisting our tanks, laser-guided missiles, attack helicopters, and body armor.
Don't get me wrong, I wish they were getting their butt's handed to them by our men and women.
But they'r not.
And I think millions of Americans have rifles in their houses, and almost EVERYone has a future IED or two in their garages.
Are you serious about the idea of citizen-led armed opposition to our government being a joke?
It seems like the joe shmo's in Iraq are doing a pretty good job resisting our tanks, laser-guided missiles, attack helicopters, and body armor.
Don't get me wrong, I wish they were getting their butt's handed to them by our men and women.
But they'r not.
And I think millions of Americans have rifles in their houses, and almost EVERYone has a future IED or two in their garages.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
Yeah but what kind of casualties are they taking? The MSM wont talk about that, unless its a massacre by US forces of course.
If a similar thing happened here (imagine: UN 'peacekeeps' in our country? It would be treasonous NOT to resist them) it would all depend on who the military sided with IMO.
Ratzinger_p38
Member
+1 my ass. He completely missed my point. It wasnt 'scary' factor, it was oh so now they have the same suppliers, why dont the police just become the MPs of the United States.
I wore the ACUs, so they are hardly 'scary' to me (although I prefer Woodland BDUs over them still). DMF also decided to take it further, and added in a personal insult at the end of his statement. Hardly 'High Road' and hardly '+1'
An argument? Whining?
Dude, reading comprehension!
The point is that people still sometimes feel like the cops are Andy Griffith, not that they ever were. Image is important.
When people hear the word "police", do they picture guys hopping from APCs with MP5s, or a friendly local sheriff? Something else?
That's a question, not a whine or an argument.
The point is this: the population at large generally doesn't think about what the police force is becoming. Baby rapers might be a reason, or an excuse.
As a society, we need to consider what we want from local Law Enforcement, not just blindly let it slowly become a military organization or worse.
Furthermore, while it may be true that we'd have a hard time fighting against our high-tech military these days, the 2nd Amendment is also about a check and balance vis-a-vis other armed government agents. When the cops are armed in significant ways that law-abiding citizens cannot be, that's a problem, too. Freedom is not just about fending off cluster bombs.
When the Gestapo came for my father's family, it was one armed man. The police force is not inherently benign or restrained. Checks and balances -- and I don't mean just easily-corrupted local elections -- help keep it that way.
Lupinus
Member
I don't think it is so much the equipment, as it is the mentality and tactics.
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